I told him to call the cops if the thinks a crime was commited.
Speaking of hang'em high, how about Ray, you and I go outfor one of his desert photo launches? We can relive one of the scenes from The Good, the Bad & the Ugly. We just have to figure out if you lean more towards the bad or the ugly. 8-)
Let's go.
Thank you for this significant addition to the discussion. Did you get the answer from my post? Either way - you win the prize. It's an anti TRA hissy fit done by none other than Shockie the Weenie King.
Everywhere in my misguided opinion.
Since I have a guided opionion, I'll say that it is possible to get permission to not obey many regulations - if you go about it the right way. Also not all states have adopted all parts of NFPA. Shockie the Weenie King didn't even know where the launch was so how could he know if NFPA applied?
I haven't seen that. You seem to fixate on it though
So -- a spot landing contest is illegal???
David Erbas-White
A couple of things...
I was one of the folks who objected to the wording that NAR had that you needed to sign that you would conduct all of your rocketry activities according to the NAR safety code. They have since changed that such that you agree that all of your 'sport' rocketry activities must be according to the safety code.
The other aspect is that in the laws I've read, there are specific exemptions for 'special effects' used in the entertainment industry. Just because you've quoted portions of the laws, doesn't mean that you're aware of OTHER areas of the law that may grant this type of exemption. That may, in fact, be one reason they did this in Texas (if I'm correct), because there may have been some leeway in the laws there.
David Erbas-White
What they're doing on that show is not HPR.
u
So anyone who's a member of TRA is prohibited from doing any other type of activity involving rocket motors? Is that what you're saying?
Not true. A certified flyer can supervise the use of the motor by a non-certified person. But who says this is HPR?
For HPR. This isn't HPR.
Produced by a corporation, doofus.=20
=E9
Bingo! The real question is, why do certain people always insist on trying to make issues out non-issues?
So this "legality" crap is just a strawman. Why didn't you just state your opposition to the show and leave it at that?
Firing rockets horizontally is also against HPR safety code, but that doesn't prevent it from being done for movies. The HPR safety code applies to specific actitivies and there are separate rules for these other types of activities. The stuff that being done on this show, or on a movie set, is not HPR and is not under the HPR code.
That's the first reasonably intelligent objection you've made.
The participants didn't create the show, and apparently had very little control over its content.
Also, I don't see this as a recruiting tool for HPR, since it's not HPR. The only connection between this show and what we do is that rocket motors are involved. Hey, testing labs use rocket motors to slam things into concrete walls -- is that HPR? Are they recruiting for HPR, or violating the HPR code? No.
I agree that I'd rather see a show about real HPR and I think it could be done in a way that is both informative and entertaining, but the network people don't care about my opinion. Heck, I think "Survivor" would have been a lot better if it had been about real people really trying to survive in the wild. Instead they made something that was basically a sick game show full of weirdos, based more on social experiment than survival.
h
Is he really, Jerry? Then you were violating the HPR codes when you used rocket motors to propel a rocket sled on the set of "The Running Man", right? What about those other movies you say you supplied motors for, did they violate NFPA codes?
>
He's here, ready to string up "Hypocrite Jerry".
Which is really weird, since the rocketry materials that are most commonly misused for criminal purposes are modroc stuff -- Estes igniters, BP from motors, etc.
=EA
Ray,
Is that any way to address Shockie the Weenie King? You should call him your hindass.
Prove it. When has TRA tried to shut down an unaffiliated launch? Be specific.
=EA
My honest opinion:
EX is probably less threatened than HPR, at least from the standpoint of ATF regulations. Unless one is engaged in large scale commerce, the ATF does not have the time or resources to even care about a few guys (probably under a few hundred) making APCP in their home laboratories. APCP made for personal use isn't even regulated as long as no resale or trasportation in commerce is taking place. Even if it were, the gram quantities of homemade APCP that people use are virtually untraceable. The ATF has no way of knowing a given quantity of propellant even exists unless you tell them outright. You need to be on their radar for them to even consider caring about your situation.
If anything, I would argue that EX will prevail even if commercial high power rocketry were to go away. There are so many ingenious formulae and motor designs out there that any regulations can be circumvented. ANCP, candy, hybrid and bi-propellant engines are well within the capability of reasonably skilled amateurs (or teams of amateurs), and can even be commercialized in some cases. Due to the abundance of information (mainly due to the internet) and better technology, EX activites have the potential to be several orders of magnitude safer than they were 50 years ago (note how I say potential; safety lies solely on the part of the experimenter).
Even so, the situation is not really as bad as we all make it out to be. The people who want to fly rockets will always be able to do so, even if it means making sacrifices or unorthodox design modifications. At what cost? I don't know
I enjoyed the show. I thought it looked fun, and I thought it made the rocket guys look quite capable and impressive. You clearly believe that it puts "HPR in a bad light" and you extend that to believe it will have a major and lasting negative impact on the hobby. It's fine for you to have that opinion. Your basic and obvious problem is that you think almost everyone (NAR members, the general public, etc) agree with your opinion. They do not. Most rational people know the difference between entertainment and reality. So quit trying to stir up trouble where none needs to exist!
Oh, and clearly TARC is illegal, because they are shooting for a TARGET altitude!
Very well stated Mike.
"shockwaveriderz"
OK, So you think we can keep the hobby safe by trying to hide?
How about this logic. We show the general public the limit of what our motors are capable of. Then when the ATF comes up and says we can take out a tank from 5 miles away they will understand better it cant be done.
RDH8
PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.