Full-length paper coupler tubes??

Does anyone know of a source for full-length paper coupler tubing, to fit standard 2.56" airframe tubes? I used to get it from Rocket R&D but apparently
they are out of business due to health problems.
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RayDunakin wrote:

PML (phenolic) CTF-2.5-36, near the bottom of the 'Airframe' page. https://secure.consumersinterest.com/pml /
Totally Tubular (paper) CPL-80-34: http://www.wooshrocketry.org/misc/TT-6-2-03.htm
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Andrew MacMillen
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Giant Leap Rocketry http://www.giantleaprocketry.com
click on High Power (rightmost button) click on Products on top frame click on airframes in left frame scroll down to Phenolic Coupler tubes
5" length for $2.09 36.5" length for $10.49
while your on that page, scroll down and check out the fiberglass and kevlar "socks", for seamless tube layups
Ed is a great guy to do business with, order fulfillment is very prompt and customer service is excellent. He has real pride in his work.
- iz
Andrew MacMillen wrote:

5" length for $2.15 36" length for $10.95

kraft only
4" for $1.00 34" for $9.00

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<< Phenolic Coupler tubes >>
I may use them but prefer paper. Even the "flexible" phenolic is too brittle for my needs, and I always have to slit a cardboard tube and glue it into the phenolic tube to make it durable enough.
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from Giant Leap Rocketry, HPR -> airframes page at http://www.giantleaprocketry.com
--
Non-brittle phenolic airframe tubes

Why is NONBRITTLE PHENOLIC better?
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<< Non-brittle phenolic airframe tubes >>
They may call it "non-brittle" but in my experience it's only a little less brittle than the regular stuff, and still far more brittle than paper tubes.
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I agree. Don't believe everything you read just because its on a website ;-)
I'm moving away from phenolic of any type and back to LOC tubes with a wrap or two of fiberglass. I've found that phenolic (from Giant Leap) will delaminate at the seams under stress. Isn't this exactly what the HPR strength of material test showed?
That said... I sure wish I knew where to get full length paper couplers. I'm pretty sure the Red Arrow full length liners are phenolic.
RayDunakin wrote:

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Alex Mericas


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;-)
wrap or

delaminate
I'm
I'm thinking that LOC/Barry should take note and start offering the couplers and stiffys full length!
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Jason Andersen
CAR S576
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BMS, www.BalsaMachining.com has 34 inch length coupler stock, from BT-5 to BT-80, including 24mm & 29mm. Totally Tubular may have better prices, but BMS is likely to get it there sooner, plus you could pick some cones, rings, & maybe an Edmonds kit at the same time. -- Richard Hickok
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<< I'm thinking that LOC/Barry should take note and start offering the couplers and stiffys full length! >>
I've suggested it to them a couple of times.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote:

Sounds like an expensive thing for a small market. That's always a problem.
Jerry
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

I've heard this reply before and I am puzzled by it. You, the seller, are buying the tubing from a vendor cut to length. A length you specify. Why can't you specify a longer length for a batch of tubes? Is is a minimum order per cut length? I would like it if the carried coupler tubes in longer lengths especially 36" or 48" to use as mandrills for Carbon fiber or fiberglass lay up tubes. True this would be a small market, but it would be a market. Bill Richardson
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Yes, usually 1,000 qty. minimum plus a set up charge. Most people don't understand how many that is, until the semi truck pulls up to deliver them. The trucking usually costs 1/3 to 1/2 as much as the tubing. Sure, there is a market, but you'd have to store them for years until they were used up.
Mike Fisher Binder Design
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Mfreptiles) wrote:

P E R S I Z E

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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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The "popular" length is the standard coupler length. In our case two lengths. Typically 3 and 6 inches or 2 and 4 inches. By adding a third size (length) the mill chartges a new set-up charge, but more to the point, longer tubes have higher minumum shipping cost. So long couplers have very low demand AND about double the cost to the manufacturer. Not necessarily a deal breeaker but if I were to go into the long coupler business I would start-up with a proposed customer list so I could recoup my costs as quickly as practical. I look for 2 year breakevens and smaller vendors look for breakevens measured in weeks or months so it is even less likely a small vendor would do it.
Wanna start a long coupler customer list grouped by tube diameter? I will be glad to order them and have them added to my next shipment.

Good plan on the mandrel. I use standard tubes as a mandrel, lay it up and have custom fiberglass cones made to the slightly thicker wall now.
Neither plan can use stock cones unless you remove the paper from the lay-up which I never do for insulation and fit of standard parts.
Jerry

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Jerry Irvine wrote: <Snip> BRich asked:
I've heard this reply before and I am puzzled by it. You, the seller, are buying the tubing from a vendor cut to length. A length you specify. Why can't you specify a longer length for a batch of tubes?
The "popular" length is the standard coupler length. In our case two lengths. Typically 3 and 6 inches or 2 and 4 inches. By adding a third size (length) the mill charges a new set-up charge, but more to the point, longer tubes have higher minimum shipping cost. So long couplers have very low demand AND about double the cost to the manufacturer. Not necessarily a deal breaker but if I were to go into the long coupler business I would start-up with a proposed customer list so I could recoup my costs as quickly as practical. I look for 2 year break evens and smaller vendors look for break evens measured in weeks or months so it is even less likely a small vendor would do it.
Wanner start a long coupler customer list grouped by tube diameter? I will be glad to order them and have them added to my next shipment.
Is is a minimum order per cut length? I would like it if the carried coupler tubes in longer lengths especially 36" or 48" to use as mandrills for Carbon fiber or fiberglass lay up tubes. True this would be a small market, but it would be a market. Bill Richardson
Good plan on the mandrel. I use standard tubes as a mandrel, lay it up and have custom fiberglass cones made to the slightly thicker wall now.
Neither plan can use stock cones unless you remove the paper from the lay-up which I never do for insulation and fit of standard parts.
Jerry
Jerry & Mike thanks for the reply. That is what i thought as my friend and I have contacted tube makers and they had a $100.00 minimum order for any size. They really would not say how many tubes they would make per size, just that it would cost $100.00.
To make minimum dia 54 mm tubes I use 3 foot mailing tubes from McMaster- Carr. I then cover them with 3M packaging tape and coat them with release compound. When the fiberglass or Carbon fiber is cured I just soak the tube out in the bath tub. Thanks for the info. Bill Richardson
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wrote:it is even less likely a small vendor would do it.

I want to buy coupler tubes to use as sacrificial mandrels for rolling my own carbon fiber tubes. Add me to the list but I am going to be a small consumer. I want 38 54 75 and 98mm for starters. But I don't imagine I need more than 10 of each. I would buy more if I *had* to. I am alternately looking for a good mandrel material. If you end up ever doing this, please email me. lennyb at telus dot net.
Thanks!
Len B
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I don't know anything about rolling Carbon Fiber tubes, but is there a reason that phenolic coupler tube won't work? Just trying to learn something here. -- Joe Michel NAR 82797 L1
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ditto 4 me ...count me in as well

They are much harder to dissolve out and remove than thinner walled simple kraft paper tubes and would cost more.
Koen
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May I at least have a priority list ie: 54 75 38 98 ?
And a preferred clearance presumably 38mm which is 1.52" airframe and 1.50" motor, you want a 1.50" coupler (typical) or a 1.52" coupler
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