In EX, it can also be that someone else makes the homebrew motor you fly. As Stine was flying "something", and there were no "approved" commercial manufacturers, they were experimental motors. (There was no one to "approve" them) Simple logic.
I'll be damned! It's been a long time, but JI made a post I agree with! :-)
In article meUce.26911$ snipped-for-privacy@fe06.lga, tater schuld at snipped-for-privacy@maps.charter.net wrote on 4/30/05 5:06 PM:
I'll post an 320 X 240 MPEG-1 (video CD) version the next time I have access to a fast upload connection.
Gary
In article snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com, Jerry Irvine at snipped-for-privacy@gte.net wrote on 4/30/05 1:38 PM:
None.
Gary
kevin:
well my mind might already have been made up, but at least I am open enough to go to the source to see what they have to say..
see what you did was throw out a statement as a known fact(perhaps known to some as you pointed out) and I just want to verify what you say is true... IF you are unwilling to tell me what you was told, then my only alternative is to goto the source...
I have no reason to doubt what Mr.Colburn told you, although he may have his own reasons for telling you whatever he did tell you and whatever others told you...
See just because a lot of STILL disgruntled EX'ers, 50 some odd years later, say G.Harry did Ex doesn't make it true... It could be they have a motive for saying such: perhaps to make G.Harry look like a hypocrite...? and Mr. Stine is not here to defend himself against potentially these accusations....I'm curious as to when and where this EX activity took place... this is for historical completeness....
I've already agreed that Mr. Stine did disparage EX/AR, as did the NAR and Estes Industries, and we all know why: economic self interest.... But also perhaps G.Harry saw the carnage caused by AR among youth and he changed his mind.... there are those today who was in EX then, who still refuses to admit that anybody was harmed....
I have also already agrred that Mr. Stine did indeed do EX in the context of using rock-a-chutes prior to their classification.... but until Mr. Colburn et al can provide me with more specific information than what you have provided so far, I'm not going to sit back and just believe whatever you may have been told...
shockie B)
Its been a dream of mine to build a scale N1 with all the motors, nice to see someone has done it (or at least close). N1 was a monster of a rocket, too bad they all blew up. :P
What did Stine fly if it wasn't EX? Again, simple logic. Name just one commercially manufactured motor, approved by "somebody with authority" when Stine flew his first few birds! There were none!
What Stine had to start with was purely Experimental!
GHS's logic after the fact was purely "Do as I say, and not as I do".
When NAR was formed, it also included Estes. The "EX is bad" theory came about so Vern could sell motors, and also due to the fact that manufacturing BP motors is (IMHO) a far more dangerous than making AP or AN motors. (when you know what you're doing).
If Stine hadn't done EX, there would be no hobby today, as the "science" wouldn't have advanced to the point that a kid can fly at the park down the street.
az:
from my previous post:
"I have also already agreed that Mr. Stine did indeed do EX in the context of using rock-a-chutes prior to their classification...."
The same argument can be made that orvillse Carlisle also did EX from say
1953-1957/58....Obviously prior to the BOE/ICC toy propellant device designation was achieved in mid 58, the motors sold by MMI were hand packed ..classic AR/EX....If this is the present argument then I agreed with you... The way Kevin couched his remarks made it seem to imply that before EX experiments with rock-a-chutes were done by G.Harry, he was doing other EX/AR prior....
And I also agreed with you that G.Harry, the NAR and Estes all had economic self-interest at heart when they disparaged AR/EX.. but perhaps they also had in mind, a way to attract people away from AR./EX to model rocketry and on that count they succeeded...
and I would submit that a lot of maiming and injury resulted due to the fact that alot of the people didn't have a clue as to what they were doing...and alot of this maiming and injury was prevented by G.Harry, the NAr and Estes popularizing MR over AR/EX....
Today EX/AR is not in the same "dangerous category" that it was then.... APCP and ANCP are relatively safe.. as far as rocket propellants go, BP and zinc/sulfur are not ......when you are making your own....
shockie B)
Correct.
He is practicing.
Correct.
...
Hmmm. Well said Terry. Now calm down a bit yourself. Please.
And herein lies part of the reason why this entire conversation is so bloody irritating. I didn't "imply" it, I stated it. Here, let me help you "Stine used to make his own motors, not a commercial product such as the Roc-a-chutes."
That's not an implication, it's a direct statement. But, you've decided what the facts are, you're not willing to consider anything else.
As long as Jerry and I are in agreement on this topic, which in and of itself is an entirely scary thought, let me close with a statement Jerry has used several times: "Never try to teach a pig to sing, you waste your time and annoy the pig."
-Kevin
How much?
Be as historically accurate as possible.
NIH inquiry?
Jerry
Define the differences between AR and EX.
I'm scared too.
Greg Heilers wrote in news:l9Dce.1385$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
Fiberglass is a composite of glass fiber and epoxy resin. Epoxy has a fairly low point for loss of strength with application of heat,like a rocket exhaust.Not a good idea,IMO. It probably would char and eventually begin to burn.
jerry, in a previous post, you stated, "in law there is only amateur and commercial. Now you are agreeing with woody, that in the beginning, all that existed was EX.
Are you whiffing the glue again?
so what kind of motors where they? where they zinc/sulfur? where they bp? when and where was he making these motors? I am trying to discern the context in which he made these motors...these are simple questions that you still have answered.
basically you are saying G.Harry did AR/EX prior to his work with rock a chutes...all I asked was to elaborate which you still haven't done..
shockie B) and you can make all the smart say>
Couldn't agree more!
What's really scary is the "agreement with JI" and I did the same in another sub-thread (first time in years that I agreed with him on anything).
And again, if Stine wasn't flying "EX", what was he flying?
In article meUce.26911$ snipped-for-privacy@fe06.lga, tater schuld at snipped-for-privacy@maps.charter.net wrote on 4/30/05 5:06 PM:
Here you go...
Gary
Well, one could postulate alternate histories... suppose composites were a little better known at the time (openly, that is: they were, then, still the "new classified military thing"), and someone had come up with a usable small-scale process for amateur use... perhaps the political lines (had they been drawn) might have been drawn differently: "nice safe composite mixtures vs. dangerous crunchy powdered preparations" rather than "home-made vs commercial".
-dave w
What I don't understand is why shockie considers that statement a "smear on the memory of G. Harry Stine".
-dave w
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