You are correct Bob in that no business license is behind them.
If they were brought in legally as personal import, no DOT paperwork would be needed if not for commerce or resale.
If you don't resell them or ship them in commerce , you don't need to spend the 10k to legally import them for non-commerce use.
I certainly don't want the NAR spending 10K so a few contest top dogs can fly motors that can be sold for $40 each after all the taxes, importation and the rest of the red tape is done.
I'm not sure theres any such thing as a "personal import"....
This assumes that the motore would be given freely to all people to use; in practice, they are sold.
Cranny, the reason I suggested this route is that the NAR would eventually make their money back from reselling these motors to NAR FAI Spacemodeler contestants. It would also allow for the growth of FAI Spacemodeling competitiors by having a reliable,continous source of FAI competition quality motors(well at least until Jiri Taborsky who is in his 50's at least ,croaks). The motors that we are talking about are A size mototrs and might cost $5-8 per; yes thats expensive, but take into consideration that FAI Spacemodeling competition is voluntary.
Hell, I'm one of the "contest top dogs" you speak of, and I couldn't agree with you more.
Seriously, someone (not you, Cranny) needs to retract the slanderous comment about "stuffing the motors in their range boxes for the flight home," 'cos I can guarantee that that DAMN well didn't happen. The euromotors have been brought in legally, at great expense, and with all of the necessary paperwork in place.
James _________________________ James Duffy snipped-for-privacy@mac.com
Seriously? Become involved in FAI flying and make a serious attempt to qualify for the team. After qualifying for the team in 2001 (for the
2002 cycle), a small number of motors were made available to me (three, to be specific). In the past five years I have burned a grand total of five Delta motors in testing to verify staging techniques for my S5 models. I burned DOZENS of Apogee motors to lay the groundwork before using the exceeding rare Deltas. (I have never flown a Delta at a NAR event, BTW.)
The Deltas have not been imported in anywhere near the quantities hinted at previously in this thread. Making a wild-ass guess, there are probably less than a hundred of the beasties on these shores. The vast majority of FAI model testing gets done with Apogee 10.5mm motors and Estes 13mm A's.
Lost in this thread is the fact that American motors are preferred for some events, including S8 (R/C rocket glider) and S7 (scale). Tony and I even used Estes B6-0's in the boosters for our Bumper WAC models for S5C (scale altitude) in 2004.
It is worth mentioning that the AMA and NAR have just announced an agreement to transfer much of the operational responsibility for FAI Spacemodeling back to the NAR. So, if any of you are interested in learning more about FAI competition, perhaps leading to spot on a future US Team, there are many of us who are genuinely committed to answering your questions and assisting!
The 2008 World Championships will be in Lleida, Spain, BTW. Should be a wonderful trip...
James ______________________ James Duffy snipped-for-privacy@mac.com
steve: why is this bs? since when are potential explosives devices allowed to be "personally" imported by anybody? show me in federal law where this is allowed.
I know for a fact that these motors are also sold to people. I was offered such a purchase at NARAM45 by a FAI competitior. I also know that one of the last batches of Czech Deltas that made its way into this country was bought and paid for upfront by a monetary collection being taken up among the various FAI competitiors at that time. Tell the truth James! The truth will set you free! Also remember that you have the 5th amendement right to not incriminate yourself! And you certainly wasn't a FAI team member back in the late 80's or mid nineties so you can't be sure how these motors were brought back in.
and thanks for verifying the fact that Czech deltas have indeed have been imported into this country. I wonder how they were declared to customs? I wonder what UN designation number was used on them?
I need to clarify some on my remarks regarding FAI tetsting and certfication of model rocket used at FAI events.
I had previously said that motors used in FAI World Cup competitions, have to be tested prior to use. It turns out this is not the case. You are on "the honour system" as was just told to me with a longtime FAI competitor. Basically the motors are only tested at the WSMC (World Space Modeling Championships) which are held on a every other year basis, so they are tested once every 2 years. I might add that in WC events, there is no prohibition against using your handmade motors....ie amateur rocketry style. And since they wouldn't be tested anyway, nobody would know. Over in East Euope not alot of distinction is made between model rocketry and amatuer rocketry as it is here. Both the Polish and former Yugoslavia modlers have a long tradition of AR dating to the mid to late 50's and in fact alot of them transitioned to model rocketry in that time frame.
well then its not BS and I'm not being an ass. The fact that 10-15 people each ante up X amount dollars up front to purchase a batch of motors versus
1 person purchasing the same batch of motors and then, reselling them in smaller batches is exactly the same thing. Money is changing hands for these motors. There is a commercial transaction taking place for these motors. Uncertfied motors are not supposed to be introduced into commerce in this country.
So my statement that they are sold is functionally correct.
Are we back to determ>> why is this bs? since when are potential explosives devices allowed to be
My so called outrageous allegation is fact as I can back up everthing I have said with emails and other sources. Before you start taking up for you FAI buddies, you better learn the truth about what has been going on. Perhaps you were not party to any of the shenigans going on. Perhaps they just omitted to discuss certain things with you or to notify you of certain things. ANd it would be such a simple to thing to scan the paperwork and post it someplace. But I doubt that will ever happen as it would prove me right. Don't get up here in public and state as fact that the paperwork is
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