NAR Board votes to violate Safety Code!

wrote:

I retired about a year and a half ago. Went over to the dark side. ;-) I've been thinking about rejoining but not real hard.
Phil
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I dropped my NAR membership a year or two back as I realized that the leadership was clueless and there was no way to get a real change. The "Kosdon Mess" was the start, and my decision to no longer support NAR has been enhanced by this major screwup. I just wish that TRA could drop NAR as a partner in the ongoing lawsuit, as actions like those taken with the Czech motors shows how lost the NARBOT really is...

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wrote:

BTW - I'll definitely rejoin so I can vote for Shockie - of course for that to happen, he'd have to get off his ass and do something besides complain.
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thanks for that show of support PHIL!!!!!
terry dean

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I'm serious - you should run.
Phil
On Mon, 29 May 2006 19:34:51 -0400, "shockwaveriderz"

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Quilly - THis is what I was replying to.
Regards Phil
On Mon, 22 May 2006 15:24:22 -0400, "shockwaveriderz"

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Bob Kaplow wrote:

I don't think NFPA has been adopted by 49 STATES. Perhaps in 49 states but not by the states themselves. At least not according to http://www.access-board.gov/ada-aba/reg-assess.htm
My understanding of Texas law is that it is up to the county and/or local AHJ. That would probably be the McGregor Fire Department which will be onsite all weekend. They're nice folk, maybe you should discuss it with them. Please buy a BBQ sandwich while your at it.
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what alex says is true.
AS far as I can determine, NFPA 1122 is not a state wide fire code in the state of Texas. Nor is the IFC(international Fire Code) nor the NFPA 1 a state wide fire code, both which incorporate the NFPA 1122/1125/1127 by reference.
Having agreed with Alex on this, still doesn't make this policy decision a correct one. What if the NSL was held in such a state where the NFPA fire codes are in regulation. Would that make a difference for you Alex? Will you will informing your land owner, I beleive who is the City of McGregor, that you have decided to allow noncertfied motors to be used on their property, and that the usual individual's NAR insurance will be null and void. Does this expose the City of McGregor to any undue liability? Will you check and ensure that the "selected" NAR members, whose individual NAR insurance will be null and void, have their own personal liability insurance in case there is an accident with these uncertified motors?
what happens in 2007 at the FAI Team Flyoffs or in 2008 at that FAI Team Practice? DO we start picking the locations of NARAM and NSL based upon whether or not the NFPA fire codes are effect in that jurisdiction? We do know that these FAI events will never be held in California, due to the fact that it has its own model rocketry laws (something about model rocket motors being required to have the CSFM stamp on them).
terry dean

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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com says...

Why don't you take care of that for them?
--
Tweak

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On Mon, 22 May 2006 12:36:51 -0400, Tweak

Does NAR insurance cover anything?
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snipped-for-privacy@ArielSystems.spamsks.net says...

I was referring to notification of the landowner.
--
Tweak

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shockwaveriderz wrote:

You will note that I did NOT defend the BoT's decision. To be honest, I'm neutral on it. What I objected to is Bob's hyperbole of calling it illegal under State Law. It is not Illegal under Texas State Law. And if it is not illegal, it is then legal (Texas law does not require state permission to do things not specifically prohibited).

If I am following the NAR Safety Code, my insurance is in effect. I assume the FAI folks have their own insurance. And as I understand it, the motors are FAI certified.
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alex:
So now we are in the business of "asuuming" ? The fact the motros are FAI is irrelevent. AS I and Bob has tried to point out in our responses here, is that NAR/TRA/CAR certfication and FAI certfication are two completely different things. Please read some of the other posts: FAI certfication is just prior to FAI event use: its based on performance not so much as long term safety. If Czech motors batch B are FAI ceretfied at the WSMC this fall in Bakinour, they are certfied for that FAI contest only. When the next FAI world Cup is flown, these same motors have to be re-tsted and recertified agan. AT the next FAI world cup event, they have to be recerted again....AS far as insurnace is concerned, thes fai spacemodleing people are supposed to be flying under the AMA Model Rocket Safety code, which I might add is also being violated by this decison :
All AMA members who operate model rockets must comply with the AMA Official National Model Rocketry Safety Code for liability coverage to be applied.
2. ENGINES - I will use only pre-loaded factory made model rocket engines that comply with the
NFPA codes governing model rocket engines that contain no more than 62.5 grams (2.2 oz.) of
propellant.
SInce these czech delta motors do not "comply with the NFPA codes governing model rocket engines" they cannot be used by AMA members and if they do, they are in violation of the AMA Model Rocket Safety Code, and their AMA insurnace is null and void.
terry dean

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I thought that the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia was the only non-NFPA state, at least as far as rockets goes. Is there a list somewhere of what states are and are not NFPA 1122?
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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ALL states except TX and CA evidently....
terry dean
writes:

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I love how this bashing of CA continues.
Anybody do a web search?
Or even reference the documents that I reference dozens of times in the past whenever anyone asks about CA Model Rocket regs?
http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/pdf/fireengineering/fw/FireworksHandbook2002.pdf
Use the binoculars in the Adobe reader to search for "1122".
Yes, the year is old, but the CSFM has explained that before and is allegedly working to correct that.
Nothing about 1127 because it pre-dates 1127.
I think 1125 is also somewhat new and was spun off of 1122 (1988), but LO and Behold, they reference 1125 as well.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
--
"""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply.
http://www.sirius.com /
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fred:
I wasn't bashing CA. I was just pointing out that CA is a known state in which only parts of nfpa1122 have been adopted as part of their overall model rocket code.
alex:
this url and listing you provide is 2 years old go here:
http://www.iccsafe.org/government/adoption.html
Also as I have explained in the past in several different forums, A state that has adopted NFPA 1 is highly likely to have adopted NFPA 1122/1125/1127 due to NFPA 1's chapter 65 which references such nfpa codes. A state that has adopted the IFC also contain a code reference these same 3 NFPA codes, its either chapte 33 or 34 depending on year of the code.
Statewide Adoption of Model Fire and Life Safety Codes
Alabama NFPA 101 Life Safety Code NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Alaska INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE Arizona NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Arkansas NFPA 101 Life Safety Code INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE California NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Colorado NFPA 101 Life Safety Code NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Connecticut NFPA 101 Life Safety Code Delaware NFPA 101 Life Safety Code Florida NFPA 101 Life Safety Code NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Georgia NFPA 101 Life Safety Code INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE Hawaii NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Idaho INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE Illinois NFPA 101 Life Safety Code Indiana NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE Iowa NFPA 101 Life Safety Code Kansas NFPA 101 Life Safety Code Kentucky NFPA 101 Life Safety Code NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Louisiana NFPA 101 Life Safety Code NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Maine NFPA 101 Life Safety Code NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Maryland NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Massachusetts NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE Michigan NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE Minnesota NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE Mississippi NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE Missouri NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE Montana NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Nebraska NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Nevada NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE New Hampshire NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE New Jersey New Mexico NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE New York NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE North Carolina INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE North Dakota NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Ohio INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE Oklahoma NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE Oregon NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE Pennsylvania INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE Rhode Island NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE South Carolina NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE South Dakota NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE Tennessee NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Texas NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE Utah NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE Vermont NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Virginia NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE Washington NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE West Virginia NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Wisconsin NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE Wyoming NFPA 101 LIFE SAFETY CODE NFPA 1 UNIFORM FIRE CODE INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE
terry dean
writes:

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Ok, the document was two years old. Net result is still that Texas is not a statewide NFPA or IFC state. Bob was incorrect when he said it was violating state law. People who rely on hyperbole and incorrect citations to make a point have zero credibility with me.
shockwaveriderz wrote:

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A few more than that http://www.access-board.gov/ada-aba/reg-assess.htm
shockwaveriderz wrote:

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writes:

I did last time we were there. VERY good BBQ.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
  Click to see the full signature.
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