NAR Certification Dates

You seem to have missed a "curious" part of the NAR motor certs.. The Kosdon motors certified by NAR. For some time after TRA TMT dropped cert for these (for just cause, IMHO), NAR kept them on their cert list. Infact they are still on the "combined" list on the NAR site!

from the NAR website

Kaplow.. Seems you need to "sink your teeth" in NAR S&T for now, as there is documented PROOF that they are not living up to your requirements TODAY and not a problem from 10 years back! (The "combined list" off the NAR website is from March of this year, and Frank has not had motors to submit for atleast 3 years!)

"Kaplow's who live in glass houses shouldn't throw crap at TRA" Well he can, but is just made to look like a fool!

Motors that were last tested 11 years ago, do not fit into consumer protection period of motors that have last their cert, now do they Bob!

Excuse me. But what exactly was your point?

So what exactly is the purpose of this post? It said nothing!

Dude, get for real already.

It's simple... It deflates all the Kaplow Komplaints about TMT as proof was presented that NAR had some issues in S&T TODAY... You might need Cliff notes if you want to follow this thread, because it was quite clear!

Sorry Greg.. It seems to be you that doesn't get the point. I wonder if Kaplow will?

OK Greg.. I'll make it simple for you.

2) Phil and I presented problems with NAR S&T that are in existance today ( no cert in 11 years when the S&T policy is recert every 3 years, and the whole Kosdon mess...)

Greg.. Step back from the Kaplow Koolaid, and put down the purple shroud... You can keep the Nikes....

to complain.

Some of those motors are clearly marked as "Denotes certification for general use expires December 31, 2005." on the NAR Engine List web page (

Mario

This means the main cert expired and they are in the three year (whatever) grace period. I presume they cold be renewed anytime with mere motors and money.

Centuri did that with long OOP motors by consistently renewing the certs. Just got ta keep a stash of motors just for recert.

I have consistently asked simply to renew old certs so motors already out there from years ago can be flown at launches.

Jerry

Don't worry about it. You wouldn't understand.

I'm sure Bob and the rest of 'Delay Testing Gang' understand.

TMT or S&T would be happy to IF you complied with the manufacturers requirements that everyone else does. They have told me that.

If you read the page from the link above, you will see it was last updated 3/5/2005.

This is for the guys that bitch that TMT takes to long after testing to update their pages and the ones that bitch about delay testing. This is what is posted as the official word. Since they have set the standard for how they expect everything to be done, I'm playing by their rules. I assume there is not a NAR exclusion in those rules.

Why would you need to re cert, and how could you, if you no longer have motors and no longer make them?

IIRC, NAR S&T does not revise the PDF sheet if the retested motors are the same as they were when tested the first time.

There have been revised PDFs posted for Quest motors when they changed from USA to German manufacture.

Likewise, there should be revised PDFs for the lower total impulse Aerotech motors (the ones that lost 'oomf' when the casings were redesigned).

I do know for a fact that they tend to be running behind in posting all the PDF updates and other web site updates (like the chronology of certification announcements).

A simple e-mail to Jack Kane often results in an e-mailed PDF of the newer data for motors that changed. He does indeed have the data.

-Fred Shecter NAR 20117

Can't do that. We're bound by Bob's rules as he has applied them to TMT. There can not be a double standard.

Perhaps an amendment needs to be added to quell the TRA whiner (turbo-hypocrite) fears, but I also point out NAR has a S&T notification system that is VERY accurate and ON THE RECORD so any double checking for new and renewal motors is trivial with a minimal amount of online research.

None of which the TRA whiners did.

Jerry

Cato learned TMT did not on A LOT of motors.

I've again (recently) requested the delay data from TMT, and have yet to get a response. Similar requests to S&T were responded to in a day, and to CAR in less than an HOUR!

I've pointed out the missing S&T data to the right folks, and have a commitment that they will update the missing data.

The Kosdon "mess" was not created by NAR, but by TRA refusing to comply with their agreement with the NAR to recognize all NAR S&T motor certs.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)!

Oh, yea, let's add to the puzzle that NAR does NOT have a history of bogus certs, while TRA does. Once one has been caught lying, you are automatically under more scrutiny.

Have YOU (or Phil) pointed out to NAR that some of their data is stale, or asked them to update the data on their web page? Have either of you asked TMT (or CAR) for their delay test data? I have done all of hte above. Only TRA has yet to respond to me.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)!

I just did.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)!