"He cannot buy HPR motors even with adult supervision as set forth by CPSC.
No, he cannot legally (nor can they be legally sold to him) purchase the
motors, but his parent or guardian can purchase them for his use.
"He cannot load his own reloadable motors as any model rocketeer, or any
adult HPR rocketeer, or any unaffiliated rocketeer, can."
Where does it say in the NFPA codes or CPSC that an adult can allow his
son/daughter to assemble or load a hpr rocket motor into a hpr rocket, under
their direct adult supervision?
"He cannot prep any dual deployment system, flash pan system, ematch cluster
or anything else specifically including ematches or BP, as any model
rocketeer, or any adult HPR rocketeer, or any unaffiliated rocketeer, ....."
PLease cite where it says a parent or adult guardian cannnot allow their
son/daughter to perform these activities under direct supervision?
Participation mean with direct adult supervision......
Not in HPR if the parent is not also HPR certified. (new NAR HPR-jr rule)
NAR HPR-jr rules.
Hence anything outside of that is not within the NAR safety code or
Again a non-HPR certified parent or guardian.
NAR Sport Services
NAR 79454 L3CC
The Rocketry Forum
NAR Junior HPR Participation Program Announced
By NAR President Mark ³Bunny² Bundick
Thanks to the hard work of the Sport Services Committee, I¹m happy to
announce our new NAR Junior HPR Participation
Program. This program provides a way for NAR Junior members, aged 14-17,
a chance to fly H and I motors. Please read
on to find out the details of our newest HPR user program!
The Level 1 Junior/Leader HPR participation program will follow the same
basic procedure used for the HPR certification
for Senior NAR
However, due to CPSC restrictions pertaining to the purchase and
possession of high power rocket motors and related
items, there are additional requirements.
It¹s important for NAR Senior member administering the Junior HPR
Participation Program to keep those legal
requirement in mind whenever Juniors are participating in HPR flights.
The additional requirements have been placed on
Junior HPR participants:
1. All HPR flights performed by the Junior and Leader NAR member must be
directly supervised by an adult who is HPR
certified L1 or greater, and can legally purchase and possess the motor
or reload kit used for the flight.
2. Use of ³electric matches² or black powder (other than that present in
the assembled motor) is not permitted.
3. Motor assembly (if required) and installation onto the airframe is to
be performed by the supervising adult under the
direction of the Junior/Leader participant.
4. The adult supervising the flight must be willing to be listed as the
flier of record and understand that they are
assuming full responsibility and liability for the flight as if it were
5. The supervising adult must be present when the Junior/Leader HPR
participant delivers the airframe to the RSO for
pre-flight inspection and placement on the launch pad.
6. Post-flight inspection of the airframe and documentation for HPR
certification flights employs the same procedures as
those for a NAR Senior Level 1 Certification flight.
When the HPR certified NAR Leader member turns 18 years of age, the
adult supervision requirements are lifted and the
certification converts to that of a NAR Senior member. At that time the
member also becomes eligible to attempt their
NAR L2 HPR certification flight.
The NAR Board of Trustees approved this program at our NARAM-46 meeting,
August 2004. We hope that members will
find this program a new way to further engage NAR Junior and Senior
members in their local activities. We also hope
those Senior members involved in the Junior HPR Participation Program
will enjoy their mentoring experience to young
rocketeers all over the country.
None of the NAR¹s HPR user programs would exist without the hard work of
the Sport Services Committee, currently
chaired by Carl Tulanko, with John Lyngdal as Trustee Advisor to the
committee. Carl would not have been able to
produce this new program without the groundwork laid by outgoing
Chairman Steve Lubliner. Steve created and managed
all aspects of the NAR¹s user certification programs, starting literally
from scratch, and created the NAR¹s largest member
service program. Thanks to all of these volunteers for continuing the
NAR¹s long standing tradition of member service
Members with questions about the programs should contact Sport Services
Chairman Carl Tulanko, 474 Old SR 74, Apt
511, Cincinnati, OH 45244 , or via email at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Who¹ll be the first NAR Junior HPR HPR Participation Program flyer? Look
for an announcement in the next issue of Sport
Rocketry, and get flying!
Pay forward! Aim high!
An important demographic in the NAR is the father/son or father/daughter
...if we can encourage more family activity it will attract more families
over time.....which will grow the NAR base...Its a positive step in the
right direction.....the NAR has always encouraged family model rocketry, now
they can add HPR to that family activity....
this will hopefully lead to future adultr HPR flyers.....
at least the NAR has a program with guidelines, over at TRA, they have a
junior HPR membership but they don't tell you how that kid is supposed to
get hold of HPR stuff....DOH
perhaps the TRA will adopt some mutually agreeable JR program with the
Assuming that the dad does all the legal and tech stuff for the kid. The
kid just watches as they do now at a NAR or Tripoli launch.
What does the kid get out of this? Proxy certification? What about his
My 13 year old daughter has been flying HPR since she was 11. I buy
the motor, and _closely_ supervise her loading it. I supervise her prepping
her recovery system. I initial her flight card, and the guys at the RSO
table don't even blink. They just assign her a pad. She's good. Couple dozen
flights to date, and every one perfect. Everything from an H128 to an I200.
First time she did it, some guy made some nasty remarks about "She can't do
that!" I just pointed to the chute, and said "Yes, she can!" Found out later
that it was sour grapes. He had failed his L1 that very morning, using the
same motor she flew successfully!
Betcha can't guess what she's getting for her next birthday... A new
kit, a set of 29mm hardware, and a NAR membership... 8^)
If Dad isn't certified, maybe Mom is. Seriously. We have several
junior/leader members whose parent has gone through certification so
that their child can fly. And it doesn't have to be a parent, it
could be any certified adult mentor.
Where there's a will, there is a way. My son thinks the NAR program
is a great idea. He's been flying G motors (under my supervision)
for years. Now he wants to build a L1 rocket of his own.
Jerry Irv> >
Why not simply write the rules so it takes less will and offers more
ways so the alleged goal, junior participation in HPR, is optimized, not
merely a chit on the list of regulations offered by NAR hereafter
referred to as a "program".
< and _closely_ supervise her loading it.
Not permissible under the NAR HPR jr program. You must cease allowing
her to learn reloading immediately.
Thank GOD you didn't let her prep dual deployment systems! Or worse,
BUY HPR motors and discharge them with ONLY adult supervision as
required by law.
I keep asking this and the author of the rule himself did not like it:
What are Ian's practical benefits for being HPR certified, besides the
He cannot buy HPR motors even with adult supervision as set forth by
He cannot load his own reloadable motors as any model rocketeer, or any
adult HPR rocketeer, or any unaffiliated rocketeer, can.
He cannot prep any dual deployment system, flash pan system, ematch
cluster or anything else specifically including ematches or BP, as any
model rocketeer, or any adult HPR rocketeer, or any unaffiliated
Many other limitations not listed specifically.
I want a rational, non-political answer.
After just giving you the choice, I see nothing positive in your last
statement, so we obviously all know where you now stand when it comes to
helping and encouraging our young rocketeers to participate in new and
exciting programs. It is a shame you can not continue to offer
assistance to our youth in this manner; as you stated, you have done so
in the past, which has never been disputed, however, your future seems
questionable. I can only hope that in the future you will change your
mind and once again assist with helping our young fliers and with the
growth of our hobby. If you wish to comment further, I would insist we
take this off line so the thread can get back on track.
Mike, you most certainly can build an altimeter bay and use it for
recording during all your flights. Please let us know how you do with
your flight and we hope you will keep us posted, to include
pics...remember, we love to see pics!
Note the subject header was: Announcing the NAR Junior HPR Participation
My trolls will cheerfully note I am being personally attacked by yet
another board administrator and NAR program leader. I find it sad.
whats wrong with a coordinated Junior HPR participation program between the
NAR and TRA....are we gonna end up with 2 competing programs.....at least
the NAR has placed their program down in writing.....so it gives you some
guidnace on how to proceed.....
I mean the NAR/TRA does want the same thing: more flyers,more families
jerry: there you go again , spewing forth your propaganda and your FUD.....
A minor can do all of this with direct adult supervision.....there is
nothing in the CPSC or NFPA that says an adult cannot directly supervise a
minor with HPR......
I disagree. They have added rules and policies that unnecessarily
restrict especially HPR and go well beyond the law, and in some cases
add **laws** that add intentional chokepoints that reduce the POTENTIAL
market some 95%+.