NAr JR Certification Participation program

The PROGRAM is a good idea.

Now the RULES should be supportive of growth (and ultra-minimalistic).

So MEMBERS want to spend some of THEIR money and time on outreach.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine
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IMHO, it is valueless. It is just a feel good title like calling a garbage collector a sanitation engineer. The only benefit is that it allows kids to pre-certify, and obtain full L1 certification automatically on their 18 birthday.

Alan

Reply to
Alan Jones

Dad didn't need one, why would jr ?

yes, most people cert L1 without a leup, shocking is it not ?

Reply to
AlMax

yes, but HE asked about how TRA did it !

Reply to
AlMax

Woa Tweak, you just made me lose half a good Heineken !

Yep, and provable for over 30 years

Reply to
AlMax

Hopefully you will get your L1 soon and can help out in the process.

Reply to
AlMax

This program has NONE of the benefits of an L1 cert. So it should clearly be namned something different. Perhaps a merit badge in verbal communication with your "overseer".

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

As a (grand)parent I can dispute that! It's the one thing guarenteed to make you certifiable. :-)

Chuck, wear> 99.999% of dad's are not certified.

Reply to
Zathras of the Great Machine

certification

Sounds like a great birthday present to me for those into the hobby. To help muddy the waters on this, my re-enactment group (Society for Creative Anachronism) has a youth program for kids that want to get involved in the armored fighting like us geezers who are 18 or older do. The primary difference between youth and adult is the weaponry used, they use padded while ours are rattan. Did I mention this is also full contact, and that the potential for mishap is likely higher than a properly supervised jr. high power flyer? The safety record there is superb, btw.

Chuck

Reply to
Zathras of the Great Machine

It *is* named something different. It's named the NAR Junior Participation Program. I don't see "cert" in there anywhere.

Reply to
Jon

Here is the actual direct reply to Jerry's post. It is *NOT* the crap Jerry states below:

"Jerry, you already know the answers to your questions and therefore need not post them as questions here. However, what you do with the answers is more important. Will you try to assist Junior rocketeers and help promote the program, or will try to find fault with all that has been presented and do nothing?

The wealth of knowlege and skills you bring to our hobby could provide these youths with a wide range of techniques to learn and apply, but it is up to you to bring your skilll set to the table, if you are up to the challenge...the choice is yours.

We can only hope you choose to positively influence our youths.

Best Regards,

Carl"

Hey, Jerry. If you're so damn smart, why is it that you can't figure out how a simple copy-and-paste procedure works so you can quote people accurately? How is it that you can act surprised and indignant because the only people who believe a word you speak are the people who just don't know you yet when you can't even quote someone accurately??

I can't h

Reply to
Jon

Very well.

I asked them to determine YOUR viewpoint on them as the chair of the committe installing the new HPR jr rules.

I felt going to the source was a wise moxe.

I had hoped to see a substantive reply, but all I did see was personal attack (which your co-moderator did not snip or warn you about) and OF COURSE your exercising your AUTHORITY at TRF to KILL THE DEBATE.

So I repurposed my effort as you know with GRAND success. Success defined as a debate on the ISSUES with REAL back and forth discussion.

Hopefully this "Version 1.0" effort can be amended considering the comments of the folks on TRF and elsewhere (notably your email).

I can hope?

IF they are even allowed to learn and apply them which they are NOT under the rules of the NAR HPR jr program, ironically.

Those tables I am even welcome at.

Some folks object to my pointing out their actions are opposite their own words or their own rules or their own stated goals.

I see it annoys you too.

Consider this. Most of the folks agreed with my comments.

Jerry

I have a pretty good head start sir. And PLENTY of folks are FIXATED on frustrating my efforts WITHIN either TRA or NAR. Fine.

But here are what a couple of rmr folks say about your NAR HPR jr rules:

P.S. I am sorry you are annoyed.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Hmmm. Thank you for pointing that out for me.

I therefore apologize about the naming scheme, and refocus on rules #2 and #3.

Or should I also refocus on the word "participation"?

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

That is obvious, but the program is all smoke and no thrust. I does not give anthing to the Jr. HPR Cerified member that they did not already have, except automatic full L1 certifation on their 18th birthday.

Alan

Reply to
Alan Jones

This sort of response is typical of a bureaucracy interested in supporting its choices despite negative or opposing user feedback.

:)

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

The JR stuff is really meaningless...That's probably why TRA didn't waste their time with a "formal" program like this....

Hey, how about we do a "Jr Driver" program where a 12 year old can wash the car, fill tires with air, but not touch the keys or the motor, and can't own a car. They can watch a licensed driver put the gas in, turn the key, and drive. Then they will automatically be given them a license at 16!

This was an attempt to keep membership in NAR - as most of us BARs know, at

14, 15 or 16, the hormones have kicked in and you really doubt that your parents are sane....You want to go off and do other things that are more "fun and exciting" (like dating - First base can mean as much as L1 at that age!) and you drop the hobby for a few years. The kids want to drop the hobby, and many parents will follow....
Reply to
AZ Woody

supposed to

I don't see any need for a Jr HPR program in TRA. Minors are already allowed to do HPR under the supervision of a certified adult. They just can't cert.

As far as I can tell, the only reason for such a program is to mollify people who think certification is a "merit badge" and that being certed is more important than actually _doing_ HPR.

g
Reply to
raydunakin

I didn't see anything that remotely resembled a personal attack in Mr. Tulanko's reply.

I do agree with you that the NAR Jr. HPR program seems to offer little more than a merit badge. It actually places more restrictions on minors than currently exist in practice.

The only potential benefit I can see would be if the Jr. Cert could be turned into a regular cert when the kid comes of age. However, that doesn't seem likely since a real cert requires the flyer to assemble his own motor and prep his own deployment charges -- both of which are not permitted in the Jr. program.

Reply to
raydunakin

supervise a

Correct. So why does anyone need a special "junior cert" program? Since minors can do HPR without any "junior cert", it's quite clear that the "junior cert" is really nothing more than a lame merit badge system that places more restrictions on the kids than currently exist.

If they really want a merit badge, create a merit badge system that doesn't add new restrictions. And CALL it a merit badge -- it's not a cert.

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Reply to
raydunakin

Exhale.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

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