NAr JR Certification Participation program

I agree. When I called the program all smoke and no thrust, I was not suggesting that it should be abandoned. You have to give the program time, and then survey the participants to see if actually enhanced their sport rocket activity, and if they felt that it improved their impression of the NAR serving their needs. Some people really do like smoke.

I would expect to see usage "spikes" at certain choke points, such as motors available to minors (F), motors available at many retail stores (G), and motors available without LEUP ("easy access").

I think looking at aggregate motor usage data can be misleading. Unless you are a motor manufacturer, the most important statistic is the number of rocketeers flying a given motor type or class, not the numbers of motors actually consumed. It would also be instructive to know the number of people flying clusters of F and G motors, since they are the people who would probably be flying larger motors if they could.

I have also suggested that the NAR should spend creative energy and resources on shoring up some MR issues. The Jr. cert. program shows that they are at least blowing smoke in the right direction. I have also suggested an HPR L0 certification, only half jokingly. True, the expansion to LMR was nice, but what has the NAR done for MR lately? They need to do some serious work with the DOT, CPSC, NFPA, and perhaps the FAA to keep model rocketry as a safe alternative to the much more hazardous amateur rocketry.

Alan

Reply to
Alan Jones
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Bull. CPSC hasn't said or done anything about TRA's EX program. You're just desperately trying to find some way to blame Firefox's problems on TRA.

That's quite an obsession you've got there.

l
Reply to
raydunakin

Reply to
Alex Mericas

What do your teen age children tell you? Mine thinks it's a good idea. Of course this is the same one who is 1/2 a Merit Badge and

75% of a project away from Eagle Scout. Maybe when he finally turns 14 he'll get the HPR "merit badge". What a slacker!

I th> shockwaveriderz wrote:

Reply to
Alex Mericas

but why not just get kids practicing the same building, clustering, staging, and airstart techniques using motors they can legally buy and use?

NOW this is an simply an excellent idea.....

shockie B)

Reply to
shockwaveriderz

Firefox itself states they are suppliers to amateur rocketry folks and the materials at issue are what is targeted.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Hi Tom.

I understand how you could feel that way, but some information may help.

do you know that Kids can't buy either an AR-15 rifle or a Ruger 22 competition hand gun ?

they can't buy .223 ammo or even good old .22 longs either.

yet every weekend, in my town, more then 50 youngsters are doing .22 long rifle league every saturday.

that's more then I bet are doing a NAR sanctioned launch of A-D motors in the whole state the same saturday.

And every other week at the Hi-Power Rifle league, at least 6-8 jrs are doing AR-15 hi power competition.

so, it is not about what you can buy, it's about what you can do under supervision.

BTW, the Jrs, and the girls mop up the adult men in Hi-Power AR-15 ;-)

Better eyes and reflexes

for those that don't know, an AR-15 is that evil looking black rifle we used in south east asia. Semi-auto of course for civilian use.

Reply to
AlMax

Maybe so, but many in NRA , yes that was NRA competition as adults go for merit badges all the time.

A shooter in the shooting sports goes for his distinguished.

some go for getting marksmen, then expert, then master in the competitions each year at Camp Perry.

Reply to
AlMax

It actually places more restrictions on minors

Example, my daughter or son under 18 can reload my flint lock rifle at the shooting range or field under my supervision all day long.

they can play with the Household Black Powder , 209 primers and priming powder on these older guns.

they can even shoot my AR-15, or my handgun.

they can even reload my .223 ammo on the reloading bench.

funny the most common book on reloading ammo at Cabelas or Gander Mountain shows a boy and his dad with the boy reloading.

but they can't load an ejection charge ?

this part just dawned on me. Yes, More restrictions.

Reply to
AlMax

Yes they can on a model rocket.

Just not on HPR, and ONLY within the NAR HPR jr program.

They can do ANYTHING in amateur rocketry with adult supervison on premesis.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

interesting !?

Reply to
AlMax

The CSPC has tried to been used by the Boxer crowd to give the Firearms the death toll, adults and all.

the NRA has prevented this with removing some key politicians from office when they get worked up about it.

While the CSPC has not yet ruled supervised firearm use by minors illegal, they wish they could.

the country of Kali just about has on it's own however.

JRs in Kali can't do Hi-Power Rifle etc..

Reply to
AlMax

They did that 30-40 years ago ?

Just what the freekin' is unsafe about AR today ?

the market for MR in adults is what ?

Reply to
AlMax

jerry, you were a customer of Firefox's.

Where are your permits?

Has the CPSC contacted you yet?

Reply to
Dave Grayvis

Are you sure? BP outside of firearms is a hazardous material per CPSC. And that is banned for sale to minors. I asked for the the language regarding use by minors... apparently the canadian program includes similar restrictions on motors.

BP for firearms has a separate exemption we can't take advantage of.

Reply to
Alex Mericas

Not sale to minors.

Use by minors with adult supervision.

< I asked for the the
Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Firefox listed every potential user of their materials who might be affected by the CPSC's action. Amateur rocketry hobbyists -- ALL of them -- are just a few of many potential Firefox customers who will be affected. The CPSC's stated reason for taking action against Firefox made no mention of rocketry at all -- they said they're trying to prevent people buying chemicals that can be used to make illegal fireworks such as M80s. Only a complete nutjob such as yourself would try to blame Firefox's troubles on TRA!

=B0

Reply to
raydunakin

Nope.

So you can let them twist in the wind since you cannot use them to get at me.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

I agree.

I believe they went wayyy beyond the scope of the law and even their own agency scope in addressing/banning all "potential precursor" chemicals.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

The new NAR "junior participation" requirements do seem a bit inconsistent in this regard - the program provides arrangements for younger members to fly rockets that use HPR motors as long as the adult assistant "purchases and uses" the motor itself - why not a similar procedure for rockets with electrically-fired ejection charges?

-dave w

Reply to
David Weinshenker

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