NAR Certification Dates

Why would TRA officially respond to a non member? I would try doing a re-up and take it from there.

No Bob I haven't reported it. You know why? Because I'm as worried about that as I am about the delay data. If it concerns you, you report it. My point is that both S&T and TMT have some holes in their data yet people are making a big stink about TMT when S&T (IMO) seems to even farther from perfect.

I'm not knocking with organization. I'm just setting the record straight.

Hey, they even told "big fine" that...

Yea but when he reminded himself, he didn't believe it because even he knows that HE TAKES LIBERTIES WITH THE TRUTH.

Phil , Sorry I have to say this about a certain person whom I shall not name but WE know. " He can't handle the truth!"

TRA unilaterally declared all Kosdon motors decertified. They also decided to renege on the agreement with NAR and stopped recognizing the NAR certification of Kosdon motors. So we have the curious situation that TRA claims to honor all motor certifications by NAR.

Except for the Kosdon motors.

There is not a single Kosdon motor that was tested and certified by TRA on the NAR combined list. Only those that were tested by NAR. TRA can decide to pull the certifications for motors that TMT tested but they cannot decertify motors tested by NAR S&T.

AZ Woody wrote:

Apparently they can or did. Right?

The motors are still certified by NAR S&T. TRA has simply chosen not to honor their agreement with NAR. That doesn't make them decertified. You can fly them on a NAR range but not on a TRA range.

Or did NAR fail to honor their agreement with TRA? Kosdon was not complying with manufacturing requirements, and believe it or not, was uncovered due to a NAR NSL! Kosdon was not datestamping his reloads (required by 1127) and didn't have the permits to manufacture them. This was during the early days of "Kosdon by AT", and though he was not supposed to be making "commercial" motors per the agreement, it was common knowledge that he was. It was similar to the JI decerts, but in the case of Kosdon, fliers were given to the end of the flying season to burn them. There was no way to use the "3 year CPA" stuff, as there was no way to determine when a reload was manufactured.

The original point however, as Kaplow is so convinced that TMT isn't following rules, is that the NAR certified Kosdons have not been retested in well over 3 years (the S&T "rule") and they "officially" are no longer being manufactured, yet seems to have no cert expiration.

That was Kosdon "West". All of the motors tested by NAR are from Kosdon "East". Once again, NAR agreed to honor TRA certifications. They did not agree to revoke certifications issued by NAR S&T at the whim of TMT.

Can't you read? They are clearly marked as expiring at the end of this year in the NAR list:

They were originally going to lose their certification on 1 July 2005 but NAR recently decided to have all general use certifications expire at the end of the year. Thus you have until the end of this year to use them.

Both NFPA and IRS 501c3 regs require them to do so.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)!

The NAR certified Kosdon were tested and granted the standard 3 (or whatever the term is for that size motor) certification, and is now at the tail end of the additional 3 year "use them or lose them" period of out of production motors. They will finally fall off NAR certification at the end of this year IIRC.

For example, from the NAR certified motor list, Kosdon section:

75 x 368 K777-11 5,R 1080.0 2400.00 5 Denotes certification for general use expires December 31, 2005.

A number of motors are in the final year of their NAR "consumer protection" period and will be unusable after the end of the year, including the Estes C5-3, a few AT motors that haven't been made since before the fire, and all the Apogee, Kosdon, and RocketVision motors.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)!

What happens when they don't and when does it happen?

So, if you are only a TRA member flying on a NAR range, Is your TRA insurance valid for flying such motor decertified, or not recognized as sertified, by the TRA?

Alan

Not if you are a psycho interpreting things as you wish.

Do they care?

Nope.

There were TRA tested "Kosdon" motors (backstory). There were NAR tested "Kosdon" motors (backstory). TRA banned Kosdon. He GOT a sell-down period. USR did not. ACS did IIRC. NAR cross-recognizes TRA certs so they allow "all" Kosdons.

TRA regognizes none.

Both are violating each others treaty.

Jerry

It's a "bunch of shit".

HOWEVER, they could have had a "ban in three years" policy to avoid that conumdrum.

By then everything from all brands would have been date stamped.

ALL certs should never expire except for PROVEN, GROSS safety issues.

Only the LOCAL AHJ should consider and referee COMPLIANCE issues. TRA should take contact with the local AHJ as defacto proof of compliance on its face.

Jerry

Everybody is.