NAR contest cert Q.

Why does the 'certified for contest use' classification have to apply
to scale competitions? Take the A10-PT, for example; it could
be useful in a scale model (perhaps in a SRB, or part of a cluster
arrangement), but it's apparently not cert'ed for contest use.
Moreover, there are many AT motors which aren't certified for
contest use which could be valuable for use in scale.
It would seem to me that the performance competitions (altitude,
etc.) require motor consistency and availability criteria which aren't
really necessary in the scale categories.
What do you BTC's think, am I missing something?
Reply to
BB
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I am pretty sure it is just tp be consistent. If NAR was even partially rational about motor certs they would have at minimum 2 additional motor brands and 50 additional motor types that are certified.
Change that and all of a sudden 24mm D24's and E50's will rearrive.
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
The A10-PT should be re-contest certified since they are now shipping loads of them. They may even be making new batches of them to support their product - the "rocket cars".
Call Estes. Ask them if they have notified NAR S&T that they are still available and in production. Ask them if they asked NAR S&T to re-instate Contest Certification.
BTW, as far as I can tell - and I may be wrong - the NAR insurance does not cover anyone for use of the rocket cars.
AND according to the CSFM, CA considers them in the same class as the flying Model Rockets (the motors have the CSFM seal on them) and they still require the usual permission of the property owner and a permit from the fire authority having jurisdiction. Since they are on a captive tether, they are sort-of like a glorified static test that moves a little but never leaves the ground.
Our section of the NAR (SCRA) does NOT have permission from the property owner to operate these devices at our Model Rocket launch site.
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-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 -- ""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply.
Reply to
Fred Shecter
I would support anybody writing up an RPC which allows the motors you mention for the craftsmanship events (i.e. (Sp)scale, Space Systems, PMC, FF/SF) I believe you're referring to. Wouldn't support it for Scale Altitude though... I'd have to ponder it some more but maybe even the Spot Landing events. Dunno...
I think the generic flak on "certified for contest use" comes from those who can't get a motor posessing a performance advantage.
Andy (STC) Eng
Reply to
Andy Eng
I think these Estes Rocket Cars are an accident just waiting to happen...I expect them to be recalled faster than the stomp air rockets were......
and yes I even agree the A10-PT motors could be useful for "flying" contests....
shockie B)
them. They
Model Rockets
permission of the
they are on
to operate
Reply to
shockwaveriderz
I don't agree. Rocket cars have been around for decades. Just as long as there have been Estes motors. The only difference is Estes is making a safer version for a change.
Long live Estes.
Ban stomp rockets!
Solids rock.
Jerry
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
jerry: now you know as well as I do, that some retard will not follow the directions and have the bright idea to build a launch ramp....and end up shooting some other kid in the face with a rocket car....that just so happened to be modified from an A10-PT to an E9-P.... watch.....
shockie B)
Reply to
shockwaveriderz
You did not read the CPSC ruling in the attached link. They are determined to be safe when designed as the regulations require. Read it completely without skipping over words. Skimming is not reading.
I have yet to see the Estes Rocket Car Safety Code.
There is no NAR version of the code that I know of.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
-- ""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply.
to be recalled faster than the stomp air
They
in
anyone
Rockets
the
are on
but
operate
Reply to
Fred Shecter
Agreed. I still find it ironic that estes could sell model rockets for 4 decades and never have a recall, then they come out with these air rockets and get nailed almost immediately. Model rockets now are proven to be safer than air rockets!
Yup. I actually considered a cluster of 10 of them (or A10-3T) for my Peanut Scale model this year...
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
I wonder when the NAR/TRA people are going to get around to (?) re-certifying the AT engines that were de-ceritfied, now that they are again being produced in quantity....
shockie B)
Reply to
shockwaveriderz
I see it as hard evidence my being a solids bigot is being on the right side of history.
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
:)
But it is recognized by law and insurance companies. Showing once again and in truly powerful form exactly how irrelevent and FUBAR the NAR safety code is.
Jerry
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
I got that and I missed over 50% of the episodes.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
Reply to
Fred Shecter
I see some stick outside that look like accidents waiting to happen. dont run near them.
I also rememebr TRA rocket cars on the desert in the late 80s. anyone else remember HPR rocket cars ?
they went the way of the dodo.
Holy Handwringing batman, we got to stop these cars !
just what recalled stomp air rockets, what was unsafe about them ?
happen...I expect them to be recalled faster than the stomp air
loads of them. They
available and in
not cover anyone
flying Model Rockets
permission of the
Since they are on
moves a little but
owner to operate
Reply to
Al max
They seem to be Perchlorathon fodder.
Some kids stand right next to them and stomp them into their own eye. Am I even exaggerating?
JERRY
Reply to
Jerry Irvine
I'm sure somebody will flight convert the Estes Rocket Cars.
But I see that as a black mark. Estes has put out product that should have been recalled.
Alan
Reply to
Alan Jones
them. They
Interesting - I was under the impression that NAR initiated contest certification.
Reply to
BB
of them. They
We have 'em both at our local wally-world.
I would like to see an A3-PT, as well, but I doubt it will happen.
Reply to
BB
True. The all plastic X-15 years ago. Some of the MightyMites are unstable out of the box. But #1 on the most dangerous list is definitely the mini X-wing with the huge chunk of metal in the nose of the pod for stability. Upon ejection, it's a bullet. We've had way too many close calls with this piece of junk. WHat were thye thinking when they designed this one?
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Reply to
Bob Kaplow
I would fix this with a change to rule 4.4 from
"4.4 Certification All motors used in a model rocket in NAR sanctioned competition, or for the purpose of establishing a United States Model Rocket Performance Record, shall be of a type currently holding NAR Contest Approval. No model rocket motor shall be flown at any NAR Sanctioned activity unless that motor holds current NAR Certification."
to
"4.4 Certification
All motors used in a model rocket in NAR sanctioned competition WHERE THE EVENT IS SCORED ON ABSOLUTE PERFORMANCE, or for the purpose of establishing a United States Model Rocket Performance Record, shall be of a type currently holding NAR Contest Approval. No model rocket motor shall be flown at any NAR Sanctioned activity unless that motor holds current NAR Certification."
This would exempt craftsmanship events EXCEPT Scale Altitude, Miscellaneous events INCLUDING RCRG, and even precision altitude and duration. Interestingly enough it would apply to an event like TAC as well.
It would allow the use in craftsmanship events of the F21, the Cessaroni G and other TRA or CAR certified motors.
Reply to
Bob Kaplow

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