[Planet News] AeroTech Statement on New ATF Regulations Effective October 10, 2006

10/17 is a status hearing. I wouldn't hold my breath for a final decision on that date. In the past the ATF has used these hearings to
ask for more time.
AZ Woody wrote:

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It hasn't been said for ceretain but they are hoping. They've also said there's a good chance that there won't be. This hearing on 10/17 is when ATF is supposed to have their data showing APCP should be classified as an explosive.
Phil
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Why would anyone expect the court to grant an injunction? The ATF has been allowed to enforce existing rules through this entire 7 year case. The defendant is typically given the benefit of the doubt, you know the whole "presumption of innocence" thing.
Phil Stein wrote:

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Either way, I can't find fault with them waiting a week to see how things turn out and then go from there.
Someone else with a big legal budget said - it's the principle. My priniciples have waited this long. A little more time won't hurt.
Phil
On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 07:39:40 -0500, Alex Mericas

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I suspect nothing earth shaking to come of the Oct 17th status hearing. The ATF will probably go, "Here's our data." Then there will be a several month wait until the next court date and so on.
In the meantime we're left in the lurch.
The only thing I hope from this whole affair is to be able to keep a modicum of supplies I deem necessary to fly. I do not want to fill up my house with rocket stuff. Cripes, you see how much an M reload costs? Wouldn't be able to fly something like that very often anyways.
Sure, you want a big engine stash, then get the LEUP and go through the process. I think to keep a few J - M's around, like a couple of 'em, shouldn't be a big deal.
Phil Stein wrote:

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Kurt wrote:

Fly hybrids. You can buy and store all the reloads you want. And a M reload is a lot less expensive.
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Alex Mericas wrote:

Let's take this approach. Let's assume you are a new member just joining and you want to progress up the certification level chain in the hobby, to where you could purchase an M hybrid reload. How would we accomplish that?
If I recall correctly, there is no permit-free certification path in either Tripoli or NAR. At some point, your effort will be ditched due to your need to purchase a restricted product.
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Darrell D. Mobley wrote:

??? You can certify L1, L2, and L3 on Hybrids. And you can start with G hybrids requiring no certification.
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Alex Mericas wrote:

That would mean I did not recall correctly. ;-)
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Alex Mericas wrote:

Not quite right...
Do you need to provide an ejection charge with a hybrid? I think "yes" is the proper answer.
Do you have an antique flintlock? (probably "no")
So how do you by the BP?
Ok, so, now say that is is not BP...
Do you need an ematch? (might be yes)...
It's hard to do a L3 without using stuff that doesn't need a LEUP. Even if you're just "passing gas" (a hybrid)
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AZ Woody wrote:

Woody is correct. Either you are going to have to have a permit, or be friendly with someone who does or fly HyperTek M motors with a Rouse C02 ejection system. ;-)
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Pyrodex and Christmas lights work very nicely, I've done it. No permit required.
Darrell D. Mobley wrote:

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Smokeless powder in a rocket is not an exempt use. You need a permit for this (to be legal). Alex Mericas wrote:

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That same statement was posted to the kiddy forum. The orangebook exemption was also posted and exempts smokeless powder. Do you have an ATF or court case link to back your statement?

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The orange book states smokeless powder is exempt for "a component in small arms ammunition"
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Do you have an on-line link or scanned copy? What is the date of the book you are looking at?

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I have the Orange Book in my hands right now and looking through Subpart H (exemptions) and do not see anything that would exempt smokeless powder (which is on the ATF explosives list). Would you care to educate me on which part of 55.141 would exempt smokeless powder ejection charges?
Thanks
NARflier wrote:

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While I can find various smokeless powders on display on open shelves at the local gun store (but no BP), at another store BP is stored in a magazine and that dealer has an ATF explosives dealers permit.
It would appear obvious that smokeless powder is exempt even if you don't intend to use it in small arms.
jdMARS wrote:

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yes, It does have a better storage exemption.
But I don't see how it setting on a shelf in wally world makes it exempt even if you don't intend to use it in small arms.
It's exempt because it's designed as a "component in small arms".
Well, heck, fine for me !
I'll consider it exempt then, since the "intent" is not listed in the Q&A of the orange book either as noted on the other forum.
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David Schultz wrote:

Also, Pyrodex is not a true smokeless powder. Pyrodex does not contain nitrocellulose in any quantity.
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