Re: A much more potent terrorost weapon than a rocket

Here in Kansas, everybody has to take the eye test but it only requires something like 20/40 vision in order to pass. The written test is distributed with the renewal forms and you fill it out before you go in with your paperwork...so it's effectively open-book. On the other hand, at least it forces you to look things up.

Don't know that I'd put it that strongly, but I understand. What makes this specific case particularly bad is that the same guy has a history: Ten years ago he crashed a birthday party in much the same manner; everyone was lucky in that there were no injuries that time. Also, he apparently has run into the back wall of his garage twice in the past month or so. If that old fart has any sense at all, he will voluntarily surrender his driver's license before the close of business today.

I guess we can put it into perspective this way, before becoming too forgiving: This guy is now twice the mass killer that Charles Manson was - and Manson is doing hard time in the California 'correctional system.'

mj observer of the human condition

Interesting concept, although I thought the age should be more like

40-45, or based on a simple health and fitness test, like when you should have your first pair of reading glasses... OK, I'm a "runner":(

Alan

One episode of ST:TNG had a culture that set the age at 60. The actor was David Ogden Stiers (sp) of MASH fame.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Once ever. But the point is the "cause" was an old man pressing the gas instead of the brake by accident. Happens all the time here with less dire consequences. If it were a crime, the jails would be full of old people.

Jerry

And in Bladerunner, replicants live for 4 years (by deliberate design). For contrast see Lazerus Long. The SF literature has much to say about longevity.

Alan

The crime was allowing this old coot to keep his license in the first place. Looks like the PRK needs to tighten up its driving license reissuance procedures.

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

You are wrong. It was NOT a crime. He was released by the police for a reason. He was stupid but not a criminal under the law. The civil suits ought to be fast and furious.

Jerry

Sorry. We have to disagree here. Pressing the accelerator instead of the brake for a second or so is a mistake. Continuing to press it instead of a) throwing it in park, b) shutting of the engine, c) swerving into a light pole, or d) simply trying the brake again (and perhaps getting it right) change it to criminal negligence and manslaughter, in my mind.

David Erbas-White

Oh I didn't miss the point about your OPINION.

But fact is the standard of a criminal charge is different.

I don't agree with TRA policies either, nor does federal or state law, but they do not comply.

Jerry

Once ever. But the point is the "cause" was an old

It's a stupid mistake that almost anyone could make. What's so appalling in this case is that the guy didn't have sense enough to figure out what was happening. Instead he just kept his foot on the gas, plowing through more than

3 blocks full of people. THAT is criminal, IMHO. He should be charged with "failure to control the vehicle".

I am just as incensed as you are BTW.

It hinges on if the driver intended to perform the act of accelerating into the crowd.

His own unlawyered statements support that he:

1. Traveled on his normal and customary route from the post office home and the road happened to be closed that day.
2. He tried to hit the brake and "accidentally hit the gas".

a. This claim is believable because like situation forlks do this ALL THE TIME.

1. It seems to be "lowered mental capacity due to age" that contributed to the incident more than "neglegence" because neglegence requires that a "like person" would have done it differently.

It hinges on a like person being one who is very old and accidentally hit the gas instead of the brake to begin with. Given how often that happens the only exceptional event here is the path of travel happened to be through a street fruit and vegetable fair. A confluence of "bad luck".

I personally believe the only luck you have is that you make by preparation and perserverence. The law disagrees.

Jerry

I don't doubt it, and pardon me if I inferred otherwise (I had no intention of doing so).

I've also heard statements that he was a regular customer at the Farmer's Market, and thus should have been aware that the road was closed. Further, the fact that the 'road happened to be closed' ought be no excuse, or it would be 'legal' to simply run down road crews, cleanup crews, or a cop who has pulled over a motorist. One of the requirements of driving is to be aware of, and respond to, posted signs and directions.

Yes, but I've NEVER heard of a gas where this has continued for 3 blocks, thus there is no 'like situation'.

If you are inferring that all older people have reduced mental capacity, then they should all have their licenses removed.

Well, I disagree. This seems to be a major cop-out. We draw lines of distinction all of the time in life. He had the responsibility to turn in his drivers' license if he could no longer drive safely. If he was no longer capable of driving safely, and didn't do so, he is criminally negligent. You simply can't have it both ways. The only 'out' for him (in my mind) is if he is actually mentally incompetent, in which case it could be a) his doctor's fault for not notifying authorities, b) the DMV or the police for not testing him properly, c) the insurance company for not following up (if his previous 'events' were reported to the insurance company), d) his family for not being aware (although they may not be 'legally' responsible), e) his own fault for not realizing it as his incompetence got progressively worse, or (least likely) f) he became incompetent so quickly that no one could do anything.

It appears that he's been of reduced capacity for quite some time, based on the reports. Therefore, HE is negligent (primarily). I've known many cases of senility/Alzheimers, and there has always been a 'window' when the individual realizes that they are 'losing it'. If he passed that window without turning in his license, he is still responsible for his actions. I just don't see any other way to approach it.

David Erbas-White

You're wrong. He should be charged with vehicluar homicide. There are 11 people dead as a direct result of his actions and failure to act. If he had been a drunk and not just a senile old F&*k, he'd be in jail awaiting trial. To me, he had a history of dangerous driving (just like someone with prior DUIs) and continued to drive knowing that he was a menace. If you Lalifornian candy-a$$es can't handle the job, send the old goat back her to MI. I'll throw the switch AND pay for the electricity.

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

I agree with you 100%. He knew that he had reduced capacity and still made the conscious decision to drive and put others at risk just as a drunk would do. Throw the book and a brick at him, IMHO.

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

Showing once again you cannot trust advise from Mark Simpson on the internet.

Considering it was mindless backlash to my more truthful and applicable comments, further reinforces he should be ignored as noise.

Jerry

I'm very familiar with the incident. In fact, I made reference to the brick as a communication device in a post last week, IIRC. It is another of my pet peeves. ;-)

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

Hey Jerry, want to match YOUR credibility on RMR against Mine? I'd venture a guess and say it's no contest. I never promised t-shirts, sold illegal motors to minors or claimed that Jim Mc Laughlin would easily win a lawsuit. Can you make the same claims? >;-)

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

Is that a squirm or a dodge that I detect in your reply, Jerry? ;-)

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

Mark, Please allow me to translate from Jerry-speak to plan english:

"I know, MOST of what I say is pure bullcrap but in ONE post I did include some fact so I'm begging for credit where credit is due."

"And if other readers check in and back up what you say, Mark, we can completely discount what they write because they are all out to get me."

:>) steve