Re: Senate Report for July 23, 2003

if you need further explanation. let me know and I will be happy to oblige

my 9 year old daughter, and 11 and 12 year old sons have had no difficulty understanding the issues

- iz

see

now your niavete is showing, Ray

because John W. is in an inner circle that is of practical necessity not available to TRA/NAR/Kyte, which I have said ad naseum in many ways

Enzi's bill has not failed, a struggle was expected. I blame TRA/NAR for being at best complacent and at worst obstructionist

I guess Mark doesn't know everything then

if Kytes position is that "no limits" is unattainable, then it is a reasonable question. What weight limits are TRA/NAR prepared to (relunctantly) support in the House?

John never instructed anyone not to write. He said, accurately, that non-constituents were accorded less weight. Everyone was encouraged to write as they wished, with priority given to chairmen, leaders and one's own states representatives.

he did not say anything which could be construed as dissappointment, frustration or criticism of TRA/NAR actions or inactions, or anything which would impair his expression of appreciation for their participation at any level

none are so blind as those who refuse to see

I regret that a few bring out the worst in me, but I am adapting ;o)

- iz

How astute that your noticed! You get to keep the 5 points. ;)

Now, go find some rockets to build and stop pestering our patience with your patronizing public platitudes for a particular pvc pipe propellant packer from Casper.

You have a right to indoctrinate your children but you do not have the right to harass each and every club website when you are not welcome. This certainly does not help with your credibility, but of course it keeps you and ARSA at the center of attention. That kind of activity is known as spam, and should be reported as such. Go for it Jeff! ;)

-John

I bet you're a great guy if you'd just stop pretending to be some sort of self-designated spokesperson for John Wickman. Let him do his own public speaking and go back to building rockets and spending time with your kids!

-John

We've skipped 'N' and have jumped right to the 'P's. ;)

John (my assonance is showing again)

"Alliteration"? Is that another word for "nattering nabobs of negativism"? ;)

This tells us what you want but doesn't tell us anything about how you could possibly achieve it.

Yes, we do. We need to know how John/Enzi/whoever, expects to get this bill passed when they couldn't get the first one passed. We need to know why this minor change will now pacify Hatch, Kohl and their cronies; and if it will, why wasn't it presented to them when they objected to the first bill? And it would be nice to know if there was any realistic chance that the Senate is even willing to keep rehashing our little problem.

Been there, read it, saw nothing of substance. It just tells me what John _wants_ to do, not _how_ it can be done.

Then please inform me exactly how it is that the Senator can tell Private Citizen A something, and not be able to tell the same thing to Private Citizen B? How is the Senator can have Private Citizen A start a letter-writing campaign, but can't do the same with Private Citizen B?

Yeah, you keep saying it but repetition doesn't make it so. We've heard all about how John and Enzi are best buds, and I have no reason to doubt that. We've also heard about how the Senator can't take an "official" position on some issues. I can understand that (up to a point), but no one's asking him to do that. If he can have one person or group take action, he can just as easily have another person or group take action.

Perhaps, but you didn't ask it, you simply made an assumption.

I don't know, why don't you ask them? Better yet, why not ask John why he think "no limits" is attainable, and what limit he'd accept if he's wrong?

At the beginning of his effort, he asked the residents of one specific state to write to their Senators. I think it was Tennessee, if I remember correctly.

Funny, I thought I asked what he DID say, not what he didn't say.

You and/or John haven't shed any light yet, Iz.

Please don't take anything I say here personally. I'm not picking a fight, just seeking enlightenment, so to speak. :)

My understanding is that the compromise would be worked out by a joint 'panel' that is appointed. It may not even include Sens Kohl and/or Hatch. I don't know that for a fact though.

Ted

Or it may include Sen Hatch and Kohl, and their house counterparts. Then we're scrod. Time to take up oragami.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Ray, I don't want to be a pessimist but I think it's true - either way we're screwed (at least politikally). The more I consider this whole subject, the more I conclude that we'll get no relief through the politikal process, no matter what we do. So instead of trying to obtain relief by politiks, and taking the risk that we may really get screwed (like the paltry and illegal 0.9# propellant limit proposed only covers APCP & not other possible formulations us inventive rocketeers may dream up), let's quit and wait for a legal decision. There is absolutely nothing wrong with recognizing that a particular course of action we began won't achieve the desired result and so now it's time to back off and wait. No one likes to wait but I now believe that the effort to get quick relief through the politikal process, though well-intentioned, was doomed to failure. This was not due to some fault of NAR/TRA/ARSA, etc. It is simply the politikal reality of post 9/11 paranoia. Again, let's be patient, endure the oppression of the moment, and wait for the slow wheels of justice to perhaps squeak in our favor. Larry Lobdell, Jr.

that's interesting perspective, John

I rather think that rocketeers have a right to be informed and make their own decisions about actions that affect their avocation. Not what TRA/NAR chooses to support, lobby against, or just introduce protracted delays while they look for "confirmation" at every turn

I have emails from members thanking me for keeping them informed, and for "fighting the good fight", so I would not be so quick to assume that everyone in a NAR section or Tripoli Prefect swallows the "party line"

killfile me if you wish, but I would be suspicious of anyone who wanted to restrict other members access to information in an attempt to limit their ability to make their own decisions. TRA doesn't even do that on their private, moderated listserv, and have been very tolerant of ARSA announcments and commentary.

- iz

Personally, I think everyone would be more tolerant of your uninvited declarations if you presented them as one opinion and one option and not "the only way" and a certain person can "do no wrong". You might even get me to leave you alone. ;) And them we could talk about rockets on here instead of regulatory nonsense. Maybe you've forgotten how fun this hobby is?!

-John

Here, here!

What I find amusing is you have plenty of energy to waste trying, and failing, to shut someone else up.

rmr is usenet. It is unshutupable.

Jerry

I supose if you have the mentality of a 10 year old or less that could confuse you.

Jerry

Everyone read this over and over.