Rocket Challenge on Discover

You can't tell from the video what 'other side' meant in relation to where they were standing.

What safety arrangement was laughable? What specifically did you see that was 'unsafe'. What did you see that could possibly in the wildest sense of the imagination get someone killed?

I think Kansas is glad you're not a public safety official.

It's a free country. I recon you'll be down right popular now.

Joel. phx

Well, Brett, WE are all part of the self-police force.

Before you get the guberment involved, why not make a recommendation to TRA on how to more safely run a launch or, at least, express your concerns to them first? Or even post your ideas for safe recovery solutions here for discussion.

Notifying the bureaucrats will simply involve authorities who have no understanding of the issues at all. And we already know what happens when that occurs.

Some have BEGGED.

It is Tripoli policy to call authorities on vendors.

And you somehow think the opposite would not be reasonable?

Jerry

Personally, I find both are unreasonable.

And one at Balls too with Alex McLaughlin and he was hospitalized. Motor ejection and safety switches are looking pretty good now, eh?

The one common thread: Tripoli

THAT is an unreasonable request. At TRA laws are made to be broken and rules are there to dissuade dissent by removal of the offending speakers.

Could this have been a G-Wiz altimeter? If you get the pyro polarity wrong it fires immediately. Not a great failure mode (better, of course would be to shut off the pyro channels and report an error) but one that is documented and testable. A check list and testing procedures would have avoided this (I like to test my altimeter with installed ematches before I add powder). There were obviously too many people working on the rocket at the same time.

It's realy easy to post-mortum these th>> And one at Balls too with Alex McLaughlin and he was hospitalized.

Irv> > > On the other hand, leave it to Tripoli to have the conditions for an

They said there was a wiring error (the one on the show), would the charge not have gone off when they switched the charge on?

Joel. phx

Where in the show did you see the site layout? Do you know for a fact they were within the impact zone (per your gif)?

Joel. phx

Or which way the wind was blowing for that matter (and from what I hear of the heat, it wasn't most of the time).

TRA offset distances (NFPA1127) force it.

And I witnessed it at LDRS-Lucerne first hand as well.

Jerry

Alex Mericas wrote: > Could this have been a G-Wiz altimeter? If you get the pyro polarity > wrong it fires immediately. Not a great failure mode (better, of course > would be to shut off the pyro channels and report an error) but one that > is documented and testable.

The failure mode results from using semiconductor output switches. Power MOSFET's have a drain-source diode that is normally reverse biased when the polarity is correct. Reverse the polarity and the diode is on. Boom. The work around for this problem is to put a forward biased diode (when things are correct) in series with the power supply. The problem with this is that it decreases already tight power supply margins. For example:

So if the input voltage drops below 7V (5V + 2V), the regulator will drop out of regulation and the output voltage will start sagging.

With a 9V battery that leaves a power supply margin of 9V - 7V or 2V. If you also must account for a ~0.7V diode forward voltage drop, then the margin drops to 1.3V. Which is getting pretty tight.

Of course there are voltage regulators readily available with much lower dropout margins than 2V. But which one is used?

Looking at my GWiz-LCD, I see what looks like a polarity protection diode. But is it in series with the pyro outputs? Not likely as the diode is a garden variety 1N4002 which is rated at 1 amp and the outputs are rated at 8. PLus it is nowhere close to the hard wired power connector. I conformal coated my altimeter and unfortunately I can no longer read the part number on the voltage regulator.

The GWiz-LCD manual never mentions (at least I don't see it) anything about safe/arm and safety considerations. Just the warning about reversed polarity firing the charges.

If the altimeter had been turned on with the charges safed (pyro power disconnected, safe/arm switches, whatever, someone could then notice that the altimeter is not running. At this point you shut off the power and try to figure out the problem. Before connecting the pyro power/ arming the charges, whatever.

The scene that was at least as bad was the discussion of how to pack the parachutes in "The Beast". Which then failed to deploy. I can't help but see a connection there.

Oddly enough, I have to wonder if that kind of publicity doesn't attract some of the wrong element, much like those who watch Nascar for the wrecks.

Randy

Thank you!

I was watching the show while on a business trip and I'm sure the people in the next room were wondering what all the shouting was about as I was screaming at the screen :-)

The RSO blew it big time with that one. The only thing that saved the flight was that it drag separated just as it started to experience columnar failure.

This was THE Bruce Lee at work?

- Jack

Jack Hagerty ARA Press

Nice segway to start a neverending thread. As usual. You could have just as easily said "So high power should follow rules?". I guess I'd better enable that JoelC filter again.

-John

I guess you've never been to big HPR launches before, eh? ;) This show might be more of an eye-opener for most rocket hobbyist that weren't aware of this side of our hobby.

Or let people know that their lack of responsibility may put an end to HPR faster than any government agency will. Self regulation only works if people are willing to obey some basic laws and safety codes, and others are willing to make it unacceptable behavior when they don't.

-John

What safety rules does all high power not follow? Are these rules they should have or rules they have that some people ignore? No one seems to want to reply to that. Someone is smoking near motors, does it matter they were high power or a box full of Estes? Didn't think so.

'ppreciate that, no point in clarifying your remarks, which to me sounds like you think high power should be banned.

Joel. phx

Nope, just the people that don't follow the laws and safety codes. They are as much of a threat to the hobby as government overregulation.

And half-baked ill-informed rmr groupies with nothing better to do than dream up disconnected thoughts and controversies.

-John

Hey! We resemble that remark! :)

-dave w