Rocket Challenge on Discover

David Schultz wrote:


The law is called "The Law of Natural Selection". Unfortunately, it can sometimes take a few generations to take effect...
David Erbas-White
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David Schultz wrote:

Agreed. Especially the igniters and ejection charges...
-dave w
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<< Specifically, I'm refering to smoking while prepping, or in the prep areas. As a result of BATF regs, you can't smoke ANYWHERE on a rocket field unless you are at least 25' away from any place an HPR motor might be. >>
As usual, the ATF has it backwards. I'd be far more concerned about smoking around BP motors, which are much easier to ignite. It takes a lot more than a cigarette to ignite APCP.
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I'd be MOST concerned about smoking anywhere near a prep area where someone could have a can of BP open. I'd rather be handling a reload kit (sans BP) with someone standing in front of me smoking, then to be handling an open can of BP with someone smoking FIFTY feet away.
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<< I'd be MOST concerned about smoking anywhere near a prep area where someone could have a can of BP open.>>
I agree, around an open can of BP additional precautions should be taken.
<<I'd rather be handling a reload kit (sans BP) with someone standing in front of me smoking, then to be handling an open can of BP with someone smoking FIFTY feet away.>>
This is the kind of exaggerated response that gets us stuck with excessive, idiotic rules. BP isn't like gasoline, it doesn't give off highly flammable vapors that can be ignited from a distance. And you'd need a heck of a lot of wind, in just the right direction and conditions, with an unusually "sparky" cigarette, to have even a remote chance of a spark from a cigarette traveling fifty feet and landing in the narrow opening of a BP can.
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someone
front
FIFTY
excessive,
flammable
of
"sparky"
traveling
Wonder what the odd were of a discarded cigarette that would take a bounce, travel through the fresh air intake, and land in my wife's lap, as she was driving down the road?
Joel. phx

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On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:42:57 -0700, "Joel Corwith"

Probably about the same as a driver flicking one out the window and it going down my shirt while riding my motorcycle. Man that hurts.
Bob
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snipped-for-privacy@bellnorth.net says...

Better high your tail on down to the store and get you an asbestos suit. Ridin' them motorcycles is hazardous to your health, you know. Plus, you will be all safe if your house catches on fire.
Still have a crusty ol' "loogey" on the sleeve of one of my jackets. Nice. Real nice.
--
Kurt Kesler



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You and I will have to agree to disagree then, Ray.
I personally have had ciggy ashes hit my skin after being blown more than 20 feet, thanks to someone's chance collision and a light breeze. If you approach me while I'm handling an open can of BP, ciggy in hand, I'm going to get verbally medieval on your ass. And by fifty feet, I'm setting up a safety zone which is not merely to protect against stray ashes, it's to allow a safety buffer in case someone gets careless, forgets about their ciggy (or just doesn't know what's going on) and decides to start walking towards me, before either of us can notice and react.
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BB wrote:

I'm with BB, Ray.
It's not just the probability of getting hit by an ash from 50 feet. (BTW, when I was smoking, I'd never toss a cig down at a launch. It was always vigorously snuffed.)
While that 50ft probability may be very, very low, in the world of risk assessment, you take that probability and multiply it by the consequences. The consequences of starting a grass fire are (typically) not too severe, but the consequences of igniting a 1 pound can of 4F are nuclear.
That teeny-tiny probability multiplied by that enormous consequence is a critical risk.
I'd rather be known for my "excessive, idiotic rules" than as a one-eyed, one-armed guy called "Lefty".
Doug
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

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Doug Sams wrote:

That's why I never take the whole pound to the launch - I bring enough for the day's ejections in a small plastic vial, and leave the bulk supply at home.
-dave w
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What he said.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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Again, Ray, you are going down a slippery slope where you don't have the expertise to be commenting on safety. A whole can of BP has no place at a launch. Only a small amount is needed for all the ejection charges for the flights made by someone for a whole weekend. People should be encourages, if not required, to leave the whole can home. It doesn't take a cigarette to set it off... just a dry day in the desert. A can of BP will remove all the windows in a vehicle, or a limb of a person.
Someone who thinks certain things are "excessive idiotic rules" is a good candidate for a Darwin Award.
RayDunakin wrote:

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<< A whole can of BP has no place at a launch. >>
Duh. I'm not the one who claimed it would be there. That was claimed by those who think a cigarette fifty feet away is some kind of deadly threat. (If there's enough wind to carry a spark from a cigarette fifty feet, why are they prepping rockets anyway??)
Not only is there no need for an entire can at a launch, there is also no need for it to be open for more than a few seconds.
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You didn't read what I wrote - did you? The fifty-foot zone is a SAFETY BUFFER. To prevent the possibility that some dweeb with a lit ciggy will get careless and wander over with reckless abandon, and ruin someone's day. Fifty feet is less than 10 seconds, walking time.
You reduce the probability of accidents by preventing the circumstances under which they can occur.

I'll agree with you on that point. Now, answer this question - in a prep area, which of these two have absolutely NO LEGITIMATE REASON to be there... a can of BP (any size), or a dweeb holding a lit cigarette?
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Is the question posed in a biased way?
:)
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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<< Now, answer this question - in a prep area, which of these two have absolutely NO LEGITIMATE REASON to be there... a can of BP (any size), or a dweeb holding a lit cigarette? >>
First off, I don't smoke so I wouldn't be the one doing it. Secondly, I personally would not be overly concerned about someone else smoking in the general vicinity while I'm prepping BP (unless they are REALLY close to the BP) -- but that's just me. If someone else wants more safety margin than that, it's fine with me. Just don't stick me with any "one size fits all" regulations.
Third, if someone is smoking while prepping their own rocket, well... it may not be the brightest thing to do but it's their neck, not mine. As long as they aren't endangering anyone else, it's nobody's business but their own. I don't endorse or condone "nanny state" rules designed to protect people from the consequences of their own actions.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote:

I agree. Also smoking a joint is safer than tobacco becausethere are fewer flying ashes :-)
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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depends on who rolled it :-D
--

Chuck Rudy

VooDoo Digital Productions
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I prefer a pipe and borkum riff. that ashed stay in the bowl where they should be. put the pipe in the pocket (only caught fire twice).
besides, I am too nervous about the flight to smoke while prepping, before and after sure. nice slow walk for recovery and my briar are just fine
--
Tater
President of MARS Club (NAR #660)
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