The finger pointing continues...

Bingo.

hit head nail

steve

Related effort with fees paid to the same lawyer.

I got it! It's under the radar with prairie dog effect. You see, ya come in under the radar quiet like, then you pop up with a letter campaign that only your allies can see. Pop back down low for a while and then mumble something on the Senate floor that only your allies know about. Then they all say, "oh yeah, we heard about that. It's a good thing, just vote yes".

steve

Wait a minute - I think you have it backwards Alex. The legislative effort was begun by Wickman and Enzi. It was THEIR effort. Apparently NAR/TRA could have played a role but wanted to be the leaders instead of being helpers. When they refused to join Wickman on his terms, the organizations should have backed off and let him finish what he started. They didn't. Perhaps they thought Kyte is a more effective politician than Enzi. You are right about one thing though. NAR/TRA DID have the right to use their resources as they saw fit. You can judge for yourself if the decision they made was a wise one. Seems to me their decision to intervene as organizations ended up with the bill having a 0.9 pound APCP limit. Of course that is speculation on my part but we will never know what would have happened if the organizations had chosen a different route because in reality, they did not. However, the better part of wisdom would have been for them to aid, not try to take over, or interfere with, the effort begun by another. The ATFE is probably still laughing - "divide and conquer" still works. Larry Lobdell Jr.

I'm positive the BATFE would just love to know your REAL address.

I am expecting an invitation to the ATF new years party so I can watch the belly laughs first hand.

rmr posts are not the prioblem.

The actual rubber hits the road association and vendor policies are the ONLY problem.

The rmr noise is a RESULT of it not the CAUSE of it.

Jerry

I used to be a Ham - I presume the fight for spectrum space is worse than it was 3 decades ago. I detect in your post an adversarial assumption that shouldn't be there. If someone made a proposal to the FCC that would be to the detriment of ARRL and amateur radio, of course they'd get involved to fight the proposal. But what would they do if someone else (does 73 magazine still exist?) made a proposal that would benefit hams? Perhaps they'd encourage their members to write if asked? Perhaps they'd file a brief or whatever in support of the proposal? But I highly doubt they'd interfere with an effort that may have a positive impact on hams just because that effort wasn't begun by them. I think ARRL would have realized the stupidity of such interference.

Read the original Enzi bill. If passed it WOULD have had a positive effect on many rocketeers. It certainly would have helped me (both NAR/TRA, L2). When I heard about the bill, I fully expected NAR/TRA to GLADLY SUPPORT the effort. They had the "responsibility" to look out for the interests of rocket flyers, but they chose to literally "look out for themselves" instead. I don't remember that John asked NAR/TRA not to get involved at all. Apparently he did ask them to support the effort, but they weren't content to have "just" a support role. Remember what someone else posted in this thread? The organizations changed the Enzi/Wickman legislative effort into the NAR/TRA legislative effort. This sounds like an ego problem, a desire to make the organizations seem relevant, etc. Why on earth would anyone be skeptical of the Enzi/Wickman initiative? Why were you skeptical? Why should NAR/TRA be skeptical just because John wasn't a member of either? Who cares what John's motive was? Maybe he was greedy; self-centered; concerned with his own company; intends to make a big-a$$ APCP motor instead of An. Whatever John's motives may have been, the bill would have benefitted much of the NAR/TRA membership. Since when have we become so moral that we refuse to support a legislative effort that would benefit us just because the effort was begun by someone whose motives we suspected might be impure? Not supporting John and Enzi in the way they asked was just plain stupid. And it resulted in a 0.9 pound limit that is useless to most L2 flyers, and showed their willingness to settle for crumbs instead of fighting ATFE for at least a bigger piece of the cake. And to add to the injury, NAR/TRA actually wanted the result passed in the Senate so it could be "fixed" in the House. As someone else has said, legislation doesn't get better; it gets worse. No wonder the government thinks we need to be regulated to death. It must think we're too stupid to be allowed to have rocket motors. Larry Lobdell Jr.

ROFL!

This should be in the FAQ.

So much happened in so little time that I'm having a hard time remembering history. Didn't Wickman begin by asking all rocket individuals (not NAR/TRA orgs) to write, call, FAX, etc? Then didn't he ask NAR/TRA to notify their members about Enzi's legislative effort just in case he had missed some and thus those people wouldn't know about it? I don't want to be guilty of selective remembering. Larry Lobdell Jr.

He kept NAR/TRA in the loop backchannel and they did not return the favor. When he received the word from Enzi as he said he would, NAR and TRA treated it like word from wickman alone.

However Enzi is of course precluded from asking for lobbying.

Jerry

Then you aren't up on all the petitions to the FCC concerning license restructuring and the fate of morse code testing (element 1). The ARRL has filed a petition, so have some so-called "grass-roots" organizations, at least one individual, and the NCVEC. And then there is BPL which might render everything else moot, at least regarding HF. There is an NPRM concerning BPL open for comment right now.

POINT!

- iz

perhaps they should have asked themselves "why"? what was there stance and track record that prevented those seeking regulatory relief from perceiving them as an ally?

it is because they are pro-regulation, so long as the regulation permits enough of rocketry to occur to keep people around to pay dues, and as long as those regulations, combined with their policies, make paying dues the only way rocketry can still be around

it is the TRA/NAR agenda that positions them on the side of regulators, they are regulatory accessories, appeasers and surrogates

while those supporting S.724 AS INTRODUCED were the rocketry advocates

BTW, what is you REAL name, Bruce?

- iz

citizenship is not a condition of eligibility

- iz

exactly

TRA/NAR was the chink in the armor of consumer rocketry

- iz

yes, John used his resources to pursue a broad exemption for rocketry with no one and nothing left out

while TRA/NAR used their resources to defy and circumvent Senator Enzi, negotiate weight limits directly with Senator Hatch's office, undermine JW's calls for fax/letter campaigns at at every turn, fail to share critical information re: the DoJ's letter, and actually encourage support of the Hatch-Kohl abortion with its 0.9 lb weight limit on "model rocket motors" for use in "recreational model rockets", etc. etc.

while that may strike you as "their right", it was both a betrayal of and breach of fiduciary duty to their own members, as well as their obligation to the public at large - rocketeers, vendors, educators, and the nations preparedness

there is no justification, Alex

except to myopic self-serving individuals intoxicated with their own power to control the fate of rocketry

- iz

I'd ROTFL but it is too tragic

$30,000 to Kyte to codify 0.9 lbs

- iz