The New F20-4 Flight Tested with Pictures

Len,

FWIW, Art was between a rock and hardplace. He's reviewing an Aerotech product, so he was using AT terminology, which is a bit unconventional to say the least. Remember, they measure their impulse in N/s :)

Doug

(I know, the slash is a grammatical construct ala the dash, being used merely to separate the letters. But to an engineer, it sure looks like Newtons per second...)

Does Aerotech really say it backwards?

NAR started the N/s madness not to mention Base 26 Alpha.

Jerry

thanks for spotting the typo Leonard. I had used "forward closer" for the ejection end in my piece, and then made the faux of saying front end of nozzle.

I changed it.

So on the topic at issue and pardon me for drifting on-topic . . . .

The motor has a "hex fixture" on the bulkhead to allowing "wrenching it in" during assembly.

The motor has an ejection cap that seems to be independent of any paper, masking tape or other marginal methods and is familiar with the Estes/Vulcan Dark Star motors.

They have the same crappy rubber band to hold the crappy igniter in.

They have the same crappy copperhead (errortech is dense). I was told otherwise by their superior Firstfire igniter supplier too.

They do not have a thrust ring so that means their "mass market kits" have fixed motor mounts and "spacer rings" to get crapped up with shorter motor use ala Enerjet (which went out of business circa 1974. Forward to the past.

Still a sticky label just marginaly smaller diameter, but not much.

Someone send me an expended one and I will comment on the ballistics next.

Jerry

I don't use copperheads, but they make great entertainment

When all else FAILS, follow directions :)

But seriously general consumers for whatever reasons have problems with copperheads and more to the point the user of the test motor in the original post to this thread himself had a problem with the copperhead he used for the F20 test. Anecdotal evidence to be sure, but you do NOT hear people whining about ematches or dips.

Jerry

This should be in the FAQ.

The new copperheads that came with the new F20s were GREAT! It's all I've used to ignite the ones I've burned. I think everyone I supplied them to used the Copperhead ignitor as well. They must have 3 times the pyrogen on them as the old ones. Instand ignition as far as I can tell.

We'll have to wait and see if all the new copperheads for all motors end up as this new and improved version. But I was impressed.

BTW, if you want to try an interesting comparison, take a Solar ignitor and a Quest/AT Tigertail ignitor, and fire each of them in an exposed environment. Better yet videotape it. Do it over a fireproof surface like a concrete slab. Simply AMAZING difference in pyrogens.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

I suspect it's a result of launch systems witht he micro gator clips instead of the flat jaw microclips. Even taped, the pointy jaws can penetrate either the tape or the ignitor insulating laminate. I've not had a problem using the flat jaw clips and taping the clip.

stones: sometimes its the simplest things that work....... shockie B)

It should be!

I've had 100% success using the Bic technique. What I find amazing is everyone complains about the crapperhead but those same people have never tried the Bic. EVERY launch I've been to has been plagued with failed ignitions because of NOT using this technique. I'd go as far as saying the RSO shouldn't allow a copperhead unless the flyer uses the Bic technique! Seriously, put this in the FAQ!!!

Ted Novak TRA#5512

His point is if you know the secret combo or the "skill" it is not a problem.

My point is I agree with you 100%. Realistic field experience matters more than 50 other factors combined.

Jerry

Kinda like NAR or TRA or DOT or ATF experience.

Exactly...Bic technique.

I'm on a crusade here people :)

Ted Novak TRA#5512

Not with me. I still use them to tie my garbage bags. ;-)

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

I've given up on copperheads and made my own FireStar, Magnelite, and Ignitorman since 1996. But when I got this batch of F20s from Gary, I figured I owed it to him to test them as shipped with the factory ignitors. I've yet to have a problem with them.

And I've had GREAT success using the Quest TigerTails in BP motors of all sizes. Of course at 12v instead of 6v they too rarely fail.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

That is tremendously good news. If Copperheads have somehow either been made better (besides a truly huge pyrogen now), that would be a boon to consumers generally.

Jerry

the notorious t-e-d wrote in news:3f47ba41$0$162 $ snipped-for-privacy@newsreader.visi.com:

Uhm, what is the Bic trick?

len.

yep, it always helps when the product works as advertised.....even if it takes

shockie B)

OK, I knew this but not by this name.

A slit piece of paper works just as well for me.

len.