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What's More Important?

What's more important?

Preserving high power rocketry or being right?

There was once a man who loved to call 911. He called 80-90 times a day, which did not endear him to the 911 workers.

He was charged with abuse of 911 and ordered to appear in court. On the court date, he stated that he had no lawyer and asked the judge to have one appointed. The judge postponed the trial. The man was free to leave the courtroom that day. Given the case load of the public defenders and how low priority this case was, he would almost certainly remain free forever.

The man, as he prepared to leave, asked to borrow the judge's phone. The judge, being a nice guy, agreed.

What happens next in that story depends on who the man called, doesn't it?

So my question to us, as the rocketry community is:

Who are we going to call?

Are we going to call our congressmen? Are we going to call the talk shows? Are we going to write letters to the newspaper? Are we going to do something to preserve our rights?

Or are we going to call each other names? Are we going to whine about things that happened 20 years ago, 10 years ago, or even last year?

If we do not hang together, we will certainly all hang separately.

What's it going to be, folks?

Heck, even if you'd rather sit around and whine about the past, you ought to shut up for a few years so that high power rocketry will continue. If HPR is shut down by the BATFE, you're not going to have anyone to whine to.

At the same, there are certain people who might wish to do a little soul searching. If you are a lightning rod for controversy, might it be time to step aside so that you won't be a source of division?

Do I really think that anyone will put aside their petty desires for the future of high power rocketry? Will people fight against the BATFE than against their fellow rocketeers? Will people care more for their own positions of power (snicker) than for the sake of the cause?

You know who the man called on the judge's phone don't you? You know what happened next.

Is that how this whole thing is going to turn out?

Zooty

Reply to
zoot
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We are going to call the authorities on each other and make baseless claims of shipping K motors to NAR and such.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Jerry,

We are so shpxing doomed.

Zooty

Reply to
zoot

That's why I resorted to whining on the internet for a decade. Somebody has to do something about it, and every time someone says, "why don't you sue", or why don't you file criminal charges "I think of this type of post we just made.

The fastest route to an easy civil judgement is successful criminal charges. One civil complaint where an attorney had that strategy in mind I stopped in its tracks. I had to bounce a check to do it. TRA ragged on me supreme for that (and still does). The check was to a COURT.

I saved their sorry asses starting with Chuck Rogers and Bruce kelly.

"Are you suing us Jerry?"

- Bruce Kelly

"no Bruce."

- Jerry Irvine

"Are you suing us Jerry?"

- Chuck Rogers

"no Chuck."

- Jerry Irvine

My patience is nearing an end.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Ok. I wasn't clear.

If we don't stop attacking each other and retaliating, we're all going to lose this hobby.

But we can't let it go, can we? We'll borrow the judge's phone to call

911 rather than walk away from our pathology and remain free men and women.

Your response was that you were being attacked. But in responding that way, you confirmed that even you couldn't let it drop. Everyone has to get the last shot, don't they?

Dang. I love this hobby. I'm going to miss it.

Zooty

Reply to
zoot

In a very narrow, permanantly recorded, worldwide access, searchable venue. rmr. That frankly only uber geeks attend and post to for the most part. The general sites are websites for the most part and Yahoo lists.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Jerry, having bitten my tongue for far too long, I think it's important that some things are never dropped... we need to be reminded of some things on a regular basis. Don't cave-in to the people that say that you should 'desist' or have a 'bad attitude' or you should 'just drop it'...

People need to be reminded that NAR etc. have NO LEGAL right to restrict our hobby to motors that 'they' approve... for gawd's sake, they tell me I can't design, build, and fly my OWN friggin' motors in the Mojave or I'll LOSE my membership? Kiss my butt then, we ain't gonna waste our money by joining...

People need to know that we DON'T need them to enjoy our hobby...

People need to know that NAR etc. seem to be acting in a way that not only lobbies congress AGAINST our autonomy, but restricts who, when, and WHERE we can purchase, manufacture, and fly our rockets and rocket motors...

As an adult geek (many times over) my friends and I don't need the likes of TRA etc. to tell me that *I* can't design and make my own motors because I'll blow myself up...

As my old 'solid rocket motor designer' buddy says: "Screw 'em... we'll launch when we're ready... if ya wanna be free, sometimes ya gotta take a stand against stupid shit... ".

Reply to
Mark

I shall take your good advise.

And for the small minority who disagrees with your sentiments, I cite the element of your post that effects THEM directly:

"but restricts who, when, and WHERE we can purchase, manufacture, and fly our rockets"

Geographic non-access to some motors is why rocketry growth is negative. Rocketeers are everywhere, not JUST at LDRS or NARAM or NSL or a group launch here and there with 20-60 guys. MOST rocketeers are lone rangers.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

I guess it's better we split our forces squabbling among ourselves than win the battle to preserve this hobby.

Right?

So much for strategy and tactics.

Zooty

Reply to
zoot

Zoot,

First of all, could you please explain how asking for explanations of purportedly improper behavior will preserve this hobby? Second of all, do you not understand that without an organization with integrity to represent the hobby, we might as well just fold up our tents today?

The whole point of being able to self-regulate is to do so with integrity, so that others don't say we're not capable of it.

David Erbas-White

Reply to
David Erbas-White

They don't.

They don't.

That's true, go to walmart and buy some Estes motors and launch them in the park (except Peoria AZ where it's prohibited,....).

You are easily misled.

Then don't participate in their clubs.

And since that has nothing to do with building your own motors?

Joel. phx

Reply to
Joel Corwith

Sorry, meant "how asking for explanations of purportedly improper behavior will damage this hobby". Must've been the keyboard...

David Erbas-White

Reply to
David Erbas-White

So a person should look the other way when attacked ?

I do think a balance needs to be acheived but passivism does not work. History has proven that.

Chris Taylor

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Reply to
Chris Taylor Jr

But who wins ? all of us or just a tiny fraction of us leaving the rest out in the cold ?

The way we are going now only estes is going to win.

that is not sufficient for me.

I have desires BEYOND what estes can provide.

Some might say lets fight the small fight now and work on the rest later.

Sorry its all or none to me. anyone with half a brain knows once we are restricted it is a cold day in hell we can later become "unrestricted" one the chains are on they will ONLY get tighter. period.

Chris Taylor

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Reply to
Chris Taylor Jr

The personal conflicts have taken on a life far beyond any self-regulation, and they will be our destruction.

If it hasn't been already.

Any time anyone tries to stand up to the BATFE, it turns into an anti-someone or anti-organization tirade.

At best, it's distracting us from our real problem. It's juvenile finger-pointing.

At worst, it's giving aid and comfort to the BATFE. Perhaps it's already too late. I would not be surprised to find out that the BATFE has made good use of our attacks against one another.

Zooty

Reply to
zoot

Hey, I write some long stuff and leave sentence fragments behind because of poor editing. We knew what you meant.

Zooty

Reply to
zoot

I think you've missed my point, Chris.

By squabbling amongst ourselves and doing everything we can to harm one another, we are ensuring that we will get the maximum restriction.

Zooty

Reply to
zoot

Right now, we are in a battle against the BATFE.

It might take looking the other way when attacked. The problem is, that takes heroes - someone willing to put aside his or her interests for the sake of the group.

Niven was right.

Humans are cowards at the core. - Larry Niven, Neutron Star , At The Core

Zooty

Reply to
zoot

"Shouting at the ground won't make it hear you any better."

That's what we are doing right now with regards to the BATFE. They are the ground.

All the letters, faxes, petitions, etc. in the world won't change their postition. Nor certain members of Congress.

The only thing which carries clout is money and votes. There is not enough of either in rocketry to make any difference whatsoever.

Deal with it.

Reply to
Zoltan

thank you for the resignation

next?

- iz

Zoltan wrote:

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

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