What's More Important?

It wouldn't affect them if they believed that our rockets were a "terrorist threat" for one second.

They don't. They know full well that we are talking about toy rockets.

This battle isn't about terrorism, it's about empire building and inadequately- sized reproductive organs.

Zooty

"Mark" wrote in news:QV1Db.4033$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

That's your privilege.

len.

if you plan to have them take you by force, You might consider building a spider hole instead.

:--)

Zooty, I disagree. It was avoidance of these very issues that got us here in the first place. And if the "DSC" Ad is to be the only outreach, the gain is marginal anyway. The outreach needs to remain ongoing.

The problems need to be documented and fixed. Or we will lose the hobby anyhow.

~ Duane Phillips.

They did. Truth... amazing concept. They still do. It is on the renewal form.

~ Duane Phillips.

By 40 MOTOR vendors with huge incentives.

It has not been 4 years.

Never was promised. It may have been hoped for, but that was a fat chance.

While I understand your sentiments, I don't agree with the defeated stance.

Eternal vigilance does not win in the wink of an eye. Some things take 10 years to resolve (apparently).

~ Duane Phillips.

Truth, some people can't produce it. Where on the renewal form does it say they'll kick you out?

Joel. phx

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:30:57 -0800, Jerry Irvine wrote:

Problem is, neither one of you are very anonymous...

~ Duane Phillips.

It has been since the start of the year that he's had it to rule, hasn't it? I don't quite understand how all that works. Does he ever have to rule?

Joel. phx

The judges get to collectively determine scheduling. I wonder if NAR has been given "guidance" they have not shared.

Jerry

Zoltan trolled:

Oh for crying out loud, are you blind or just stupid?? At the time of the fire there were THREE other manufacturers of APCP motors, and at least a couple or more hybrid manufacturers! How many more manufacturers would it take for you to admit that there's no "AT monopoly"??

Fine, then YOU certify the twit's motors. Start your own club and set up your own cert process and allow whatever you want.

Have you even looked at Jerry's website? He himself states that GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS are preventing him from shipping motors. NOT TRA!

The BATFE wouldn't give a flying fig if every rocketeer in the country showed up.

Yeah, they would.

Their little stunt is all a bluff. They're politicians playing at building empires. They are afraid of the American public, but lucky for them the American public falls for their propaganda.

Zooty

So why coldn't you buy your beloved G80's?

Jerry

Unlike saddam I am not a withering pathetic coward.

That's a twist Joel.. the statement was, "...to restrict our hobby to motors that 'they' approve... "

Convenient you cropped that off the origin though...

On the membership form for NAR, towards the bottom, right after where I would put my VISA number, and right before where I would sign my signature (under which line is the statement, "Your signature is required for processing this application.", is the nice enlarged font statement/admissory:

"I pledge to conduct all my sport rocketry activities in compliance with the NAR Safety Code."

To not agree with said statement would mean certain denial into said membership, would it not?

YES OR NO?

Because, the next thing wrapped up pretty into that package is item #2 on the NAR Model Rocket Safety Code:

"Motors. I will use only certified, commercially-made model rocket motors, and will not tamper with these motors or use them for any purposes except those recommended by the manufacturer."

AND MORE SPECIFICALLY item #4 on the NAR High Power Rocket Safety Code:

"Motors. I will use only commercially-made, NAR-certified rocket motors in the manner recommended by the manufacturer. I will not alter the rocket motor, its parts, or its ingredients in any way."

Regardless of practice Joel, this is what is in BLACK AND WHITE.

So Joel, "> Truth, some people can't produce it." I guess this is YOURS to keep, no?

Oh, and just so you don't feel like your link here is left out of the fun... go to it for this piece (about the 5th paragraph, right before filling out the form): "By submitting this form, I pledge to conduct all my sport rocketry activities in compliance with the NAR Model Rocket Safety Code and the NAR High Power Safety Code. "

References: Actual current NAR membership application (paper) in possession at time of this post.

Ray, I thought we got past this name calling?

It would take enough that I, and anyone else, can get those motors readily in competition in the marketplace, not only across the internet where I am free to pay double or more the price due to shipping charges, nor only at launches, where one has to wait for the few and far between, and purchase enough to last (and then store). It would take enough, that we see in the common marketplace, selections above "E9" by more than 2 manufacturers. Estes has Quest competing for marketshare. Competition is good, and provides shelter if one dies off. We need this in the E/F/G market as well at a minimum. Stipulations about higher powers to be free and open to adults should be persued.

The cost of getting into hybrids, as you know, is prohibitively expensive initially, and is not a chunk that is marketed commonplace. It will take 3 times as many hybrid manufacturers before those prices begin to be brought to the market of the common man.

Whether you acknowledge it or not, there *was* a lack of motor supply when AT burned down, and a large segment of LMR had already sunk cash into using AT systems. What was left of pre-fire stock went for famine prices. These are facts as I personally witnessed them. All three hobby stores which I frequent, and who used to carry AT, were devoid of all except Estes and Quest. And it is these *facts* that has me hopping for changes in the certifications process. So whether Jerry is right or wrong on his personal business status and paperwork, still does not disqualify the fact that he has motors, good motors to burn, and the public at large cannot get to them due to the beauracracy involved, in which the Nationally influencing organizations have not moved to solve the void of difference. Instead they act like yet another agency prohibiting the path to enjoyment of the hobby. The NAR/TRA stance is only verbal gas if it doesn't pass into action.

No amount of excuses will suffice without action on the part of the orgs.

Post until your fingers are blue Ray, but the motor situation is critical.

Your attitude below says to me, "Don't let the door hit you in the butt."

If this is so, then it is you who is blind to the issues at hand. You are too busy defending and not seriously accomodating honest and valid concerns that many, like me, have. I am not all out against the orgs. I *want* to be a part of them, as long as I have some semblence that in reality they are not just another beauracracy standing in the way. And quite frankly, there is not enough being done about the motor situation... So yes, Jerry remains a focal point.

I have, but it doesn't profer any solutions to getting motors to market.

~ Duane Phillips.