Show me. Cite the basis, in detail, for your
assertions that Jerry's motors are "illegal".
(I don't think I am a dupe, but your postings thus
far on this matter do not give me very much reason
to care whether you share that opinion.)
Speaking strictly for myself, not Iz nor anyone else:
I post regularly to ROL, a local rocketry mailing list, and just
recently occasionally here to RMR. I am a TRA member but I am not on
the TRA discussion list.
Because I don't want to go through the hassle of trying to keep
separate track of what I say on that list and elsewhere. And as
others here on RMR will attest, TRA list members who post stuff from
that list elsewhere get hit with a bunch of "bad dog" points and
whacked on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper. Tripoli seems to be
under the impression that the TRA list is somehow a secure list--well,
secure from John Q. Public but hardly secure from the prying eyes of
BATF, any intelligence agency or even minimally competent hackers.
If I have something to say about rocketry, I say it on these very
public forums. It can be argued that internal TRA business should be
private. But TRA's policies and actions affect all of rocketry and
because of that its actions need to be discussed in public forums.
Those members who wish to discuss TRA matters privately certainly have
every right to do so. But Tripoli has set itself up as a kind of
AHJ--and AHJ's must be subject to *public* scrutiny.
I would not disclose information I obtained from an executive session
of the BoD or from any current committee membership. But I'm not in
on any executive BoD meetings--and very likely never will be!--and my
service on the original TRA future directions committee left me with
no information that could possibly be considered confidential now.
Thus, I can discuss issues freely without constant fear of the
rolled-up newspaper, knowing that I'm not leaking any information and
without having to maintain a level of mental compartmentalization that
I'm simply no good at.
And I do engage in some self-censorship of information I consider to
be best left off public forums read by opressive bureaucrats and
(America: made in China)
Ok, your not on the list, Iz is and sometimes posts. If I have a problem with
TRA, I make sure
it makes the TRA list, because I know all the BOD members read the list, even if
they don't post
or respond. IMO, Iz needs to exercise balls in that venue...(;-)
"Kenneth C. McGoff> > Hey big guy, why not post you statement to the TRA list?? You are a member...
BS Jerry, you know better; I could care less what is on the TRA cert list unless
launching at a TRA launch. If you were legal, I know of at least one independent
group that would welcome your motors. But what is Jerry doing? Wa-Wa-Wa,
is out to get me. etc, etc.
Jerry Irv> Your criteria for legal is if they are on a "TRA" list or not?
my presence on the list is delicate, as is my membership in TRA
the energetic discourse that would be required would result in my
immediate removal from one or both
rest assured that the BoD is kept informed of my positions
W. E. Fred Wallace wrote:
TRA, I make sure
if they don't post
DUPED???? SUPPORTER???? Excuse me!!!!
I fly independant. I make some of my own motors. Does that make me
I have donated to the TRA/NAR legal fund. I thought it was the right
thing to do. Is this where I got duped?
I wrote to my congress-persons to make hobby rocketry free. I thought
it was the right thing to do. Is this where I got duped? Shoot, I
even suggested, here, doing that in support of the lawsuit. When the
concensus here was that I shouldn't, I didn't. (Still think I
I support equal treatment under the laws and rules. I have researched
the rules for myself. I have read the DOT regs, the BATFE regs, I
have obtained copies of the NFPA (can't think of what to call them
except garbage) the DOD rules, the test requirements, etc.
I have never met Jerry. I have never bought anything from Jerry, but
that doesn't mean I won't. I admit that I have corresponded with him
a few times, but not on this subject. I was interested in his
critique of a manufacturing idea.
He may be emotional and reactive about this subject, but under the
circumstances, based on what I know of the rules and the stories I
have seen here (even if only half of them are true), I don't blame
The more I see and hear of the national orgs, the more their actions
look an awful lot like the pigs on animal farm. "All animals are
equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
I know what the laws say. Do you? I know where to find the laws
that apply. Do you? I know where TRA and NAR are being inconsistant.
This is a debate. An open debate is a healthy thing. Claims made on
the two sides are expected to have cites and/or examples to backup the
claims. It's time to put-up or shut-up.
Iz, don't give me that crap, I have posted to the TRA list, quite energetically
on the TRA rag-mag and
a few other issues. Not one TRA BOD member has threatened my removal from
either the list or TRA, at
least that I'm aware of.
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote:
All of these "take it to the TRA list" messages
make it sound like there's something to hide, some
secret "not-for-outsiders" explanation that is being
passed around internally.
Hardly a good advertisment for the Association...
NAR 77643 current
TRA 06575 expired
with TRA, I make sure
even if they don't post
> > or respond. IMO, Iz needs to exercise balls in that venue...(;-)