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: Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)
You don't need to worry, I have never punched anyone for something they say on RMR..(;-)
Fred
baDBob wrote:
Yes I do, it's my job..
What an assertive statement...Part of my real job is Hazmat QA. Once upon a time, I attempted to help Jerry with his problem. Unfortunately, the documentation Jerry produced and when presented to DOT, was determined to be insufficient, and only resulted in a DOT investigation of his activities. What happened as a result of the investigation?? Not sure; but one thing is clear, Jerry is no longer shipping motors, so he says: Take a look at his US-Rockets web page; what could possibly have caused Jerry to put such a statement. As you say, "and/or example to backup the claim".
You can get more than a "whacked on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper" from TRA, regardless of where your source is. Some anonymous person regularly sends be juicy tidbits from the "secret" list. It seems Jerry has a similar source.
ROTFL!
As I posted recently, the minimal TRA "confidential" information I ever had I've NEVER disclosed to any one to this day.
As it should be. Except they can still "whack you on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper" for talking about it here. Need I remind folks it's happened before.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Bingo! A secret society has something to hide. In the case of TRA it's pretty obvious what they've got to hide. But it's the MEMBVERSHIP they are trying to hide from. Sometimes I wonder if even all of the BOD knows what's really going on.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
I use a screen name because that's how I started out and want to be consistant. Most recently, it has been useful to avoid having to explain some of my writings here and on other groups to my employer and, possibly, the press.
I have posted several logical arguments with cites.
snip
Just change the north to south. Used to use my real address when I first started. Began to be inundated with spam. Got a new address and then munged it.
Has never been a concern.
Thank you for the example. Except for what he has posted, I haven't seen any of Jerry's paperwork. Now we have a first hand source. I assume that in seeing it, you agreed to non-disclosure. Will be interesting to see Jerry's side.
I work for the US gov't. More specifically for the Space Shuttle Program Office. Part of my job is maintenance responsibility for all of the req's that must be met in processing the Shuttle. I read and review laws, regs, specs, and requirements all the time. Another part of my job is responsibility for all of the imaging and image analysis for the SSP. If you have read the Columbia Accident Investigation Report, then you have read about me. The press is constantly after me for quotes and stories and I prefer to have a lower profile. I like my privacy.
I mostly don't care since it is the same tired old rhetoric there as here. The positions are frozen in stone and nobody is budging. Perfect conditons for a lawsuit if you ask me.
The casual observer can see who the troll is in this conversation.
How did you help? Even when I sent a fax to them and to you and they claimed to not receive it even though you verifiably received it, there was a problem that was observable. Did you ever send your copy to them? They have since claimed they have never received it. Are you a crook too? Just like me? I guess so.
There is some thing wacky going on with DOT and ACS and maybe I bought into a quagmire DOT had targeted without my knowledge, but you cannot deny the papers are real. You cannot deny you have seen them and accept them as valid.
Excerpt from your email snipped for brevity and respect for your other comments:
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 18:53:57 -0400 From: Fred Reply-To: WALLACEWE@[snipped for courtesy] Organization: HOME X-Accept-Language: en To: Jerry Irvine Subject: Re: Call for Agenda Items, NAR Board Meeting
Jerry, The propellant manufactured by ACS-Reactions Labs is UN classified, UN 0186, proper shipping name is Rocket Motors. The commercial name is Rocket Motor (P/N 3486-A, EX-8611103). Unless the UN classification was changed and approved by DOT, it remains valid, for the place of business and original owner/requester. All of the above information was extracted from the Competent authority Approval letter, CA-861124), dated NOV. 28, 1986. I am not arguing validity of ownership, only using the letter content as the example of source data to determine hazmat status.
I know many members that do not bother to read the crap here. What's the point in "preaching to the choir", just to please Jerry? If he {truly} wanted to empower change, it would be through their membership, not the rabble reading here. Maybe ER would be interested in a well thought out article,....
Jerry, As you quoted me, the validity of UN classification is not in question. However, if as you say, maybe you did get caught up in a DOT quagmire; be that as it may, that possibility is not your licence to ship hazmat without proper hazmat shipping paperwork. I know you did this type of transaction with at least one local motor dealer, resulting in a DOT quagmire for him, that is still not resolved.
I could quote page and paragraph until hell freezes over and so could you; it will change nothing, as you are not a DOT recognized orginater/manufacture of UN
0186, shipping and commercial name, Rocket Motors (P/N 3486-A, EX8611103).
In addition, you are not a trained and certified hazmat shipper, right? If that is in fact the case, you have two options:
Document training and certification from a certified hazmat trainer, so you know and understand the rules (anual training required). You can then ship hazmat legally.
Contract hazmat shipping to an authorized hazmat contract shipper.
Did I cover it adequately BadBob? By your most recent post, you are more than qualified to make any corrections.
Fred
Jerry Irv> There is some thing wacky going on with DOT and ACS and maybe I bought
I think the only non-disclosure item was if he happened to see a formula. I have POSTED everything else.
But even then it was a +-10% rule so it allows for alot of variance sufficient for the differences in STD and F and WS propellants at least (and a couple of other specific examples).
I guess the fact that I chose r.m.r as my principal rocketry-related online forum makes me one of thosewho you view as "rabble", then... well, at least that's out in the open.
I know that anything of significance about TRA said on RMR or ROL will eventually find its way onto the TRA list and to the BoD.
Unlike Jerry, and to a somewhat lesser extent, Iz, I'm not an ardent TRA basher. Heck, I'm a member who was proud to serve on an important committee once! But through the shrill rhetoric there is an old message of concern about some of the things TRA is doing, and how. Things, problems, that haven't been corrected in a decade or more. So I'm not jumping up and down with a scimitar clenched in my teeth chanting "Impeach the Bod!" but I do recommend that TRA members at each election use that opportunity to vote out the old guard and vote in new faces with some fresh ideas. The benign dictatorship of the Kelly and Rogers Rocketry Ass'n.(who I voted for a number of times) accomplished much good, screwed some things up royally, and now needs to gracefully step aside so TRA can adapt to modern times and clean up the old messes.
I used to say that John Cato's major fault was beating a dead horse long after it was labelled "Alpo." Jerry is still beating those dead horses long after the Alpo has become dog exhaust. But dang it, those dead horses are still around stinking up the place because TRA has never shoveled out the dog crap in its house. So I gotta agree with Iz and Jerry that TRA needs some new faces and a new attitude and do some housecleaning. ;-)
Motor certs are important for consumer protection and to comply with the rules that NAR/TRA themselves insisted on. The same rules need to apply to everyone. and they need to be minimally necessary and legally mandated rules. Testing and certification should be done by an independent agency outside NAR/TRA control.
The effort to appease BATF was a mistake. (One that I shared in by getting a LEUP in 1994.) The current situation with NFPA/BATF/lawsuit is nuts--never hand-feed an alligator unless you want to feed the alligator hands! Chomp, chomp...waaah, the big bad alligator bit us...Jerry was right about PAD's, that should have been our line in the sand. Today we're in a weaker position to bargain for sensible laws. Dead horse, killed by NAR, TRA, and BATF.
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