When are motors to be de-certified?

I'm sorry, I live on the east coast and am not aware of companies providing the service out west. Airtex Inc. and Airshot are local companies we use at work, for specialized hazmat shipping. Talk to Gary, I'm sure he can help you..(:-)

You have the cart before the horse........

Fred

Reply to
W. E. Fred Wallace
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I have actually been suspended from the list on two separate occasions, and have the dialogs with the sysadmin among my archived mail. I will not go into the details out of respect for David W.

Bruce Kelly personally offered to refund my dues from his own pocket if I would leave Tripoli

and I have other evidence that approval of my membership renewal was debated, the details and source I will not divulge out of respect of their efforts on my behalf (on several occasions)

it is not crap by a longshot!

- iz

W. E. Fred Wallace wrote:

energetically on the TRA rag-mag and

either the list or TRA, at

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

indeed, if we had a "changing of the guard", and a TRA administration more open to member scrutiny, I believe that all that is good in HPR embodied in the membership would be expressed, expatriots would return and those kept away would reconsider their choice not to join.

the question is, will TRA do what is in the best interests of rocketry or not.

I have not, nor do I believe that Bob Kaplow and Jerry Irvine have, given up hope that TRA as an organization can be salvaged. And I for one would enthusiastically support it's reform.

if motor certs are mandated, then they should be done independently and objectively. Agreed.

- iz

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

One question is whether they _should_ be mandated (at least in the context of codes intended to be given legal force by reference in fire safety requirements)...

AIUI, we (i.e., the hobby associations' reps to the NFPA) _asked_ the NFPA to put that part in the model codes, didn't we?

Perhaps, in retrospect, we may conclude that getting NAR/TRA "legally" involved in telling anyone what motors not to fly was one of those Bad Ideas that seemed like a Good Idea at the time, but may have ended up causing more trouble than it was supposed to prevent.

-dave w

Reply to
David Weinshenker

Nope, it was when you fell for Jerry's story about how it's all TRA's fault that he can't get his motors certified.

Reply to
RayDunakin

I think that we need to back-up a bit, first. The question, to me, seems to be "which of the hazmat requirements apply." Until that question is answered, then we are only speculating on what wickets Jerry has to jump through to "legally" ship his motors.

In the DOT regs, there is a test sequence identified that establishes the path that must be followed (49 CFR 173.56, 57, 58) to classify explosives. If you assume worst case, this is the place to start. It is concievable that a propellant could pass through that series of tests and drop out as nothing more serious than being a flammable solid (49 CFR 173.58(a) The criteria for assignment of class and division are as follows: (6) Not in the explosive class if the substance or article does not have significant explosive hazard or if the effects of explosion are completely confined within the article.)

The table (49 CFR 172.101) does not work well when things drop out of the test. Still trying to understand it.

Does the DOT recognize his test data that his motor propellant is a flammable solid? I understand his reluctance to publish official documents that may identify patented formulas. However, we, as interested third parties, cannot go much further in this area without more data.

Bob

Reply to
baDBob

Bob, when you and your wife have a disagreement, do you hash it out in public or privately? If you try to avoid doing so in public, is it because you have "something to hide" or is it because it's a private matter between you and your wife?

That's how it is with an organization and its members -- or should be, anyway.

Reply to
RayDunakin

Actually, according to certain investigatroy agencies, both of those are my real names. Go figure.

Bob

Reply to
baDBob

I have not yet accepted Jerry's story. His story is incomplete. Still looking for more data. It's tough trying to apply the law a piece at a time.

Reply to
baDBob

Public of course. Usually in the mall or at a restaurant :)

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Ah, but you DO have the actual TEST RESULTS.

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Reply to
Jerry Irvine

You sir are a future Jerry Irvine. That's how it started for me sans the internet mechanisms.

TRA had far better information control and monologue back then :-)

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

yep

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Alot more. It resulted in DECERTIFICATIONS of about a dozen otherwise legal manufacturers.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

You rabble rouser! :)

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

"if"

calm down.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

yes, indeed

that is precisely why I qualified my statement

;)

- iz

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

Hmmmm. I gotta go back and read the laws again to see whether the DOT must accept this recommendation or if they have the option of defaulting to a higher class if they wish.

So the next step is some documentation that the DOTaccepts the recommendation and acknowledges the classification of 4.1.

Bob

Reply to
baDBob

it doesn't work when the communications channel is moderated and is only attended by a minority of the actual membership

... or when an organization's leadership is corrupt

how many YEARS have members been clamoring for a resolution of the HPR problem on the TRA listserv, Ray? If they can't resolve a problem as small as a publication, how can they ever hope to solve fundamental policy issues?

- iz

RayDunak> Bob K. wrote:

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

and can it not be also said that your first initial is "R"?

now we're getting somewhere! :)

- iz

baDBob wrote:

Reply to
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed

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