When are motors to be de-certified?

Philip, You don't have the facts either. Several US rocket motors were on the TRA cert. list until 1998. I know, I used a H-160 to L1 cert. in the late summer of 1997 and that motor was on the TRA cert. list at the time. Best $30.00 single use, but kicker H motor.

I bet I burned dozen of them, before we could not get them anymore. Put four of those in a PML Eclipse and watch it rip.. Those were the days.. Jerry, get legal.

Fred

So in what way was Jerry "legal" then that he isn't now?

-dave w

It's my understanding, at the time those motors were certified, TRA did not require proof of DOT and LEMP from it's motor manufacture. In looking back at how it evolved into a requirement, it was probably Kosdon and Kosdon East that gave TRA TMT the most fits, resulting in tighter controls. You might email Sue McMurry.

Fred

David We> "W. E. Fred Wallace" wrote:

Hmmm... so at some point TMT changed the rules so that some of the suppliers who had been providing motors for the hobby all along suddenly weren't "legal enough" for them, even though nothing in particular had changed in the operation of those suppliers?

-dave w

Thank you for that Fred.

Dave, Fred does have one point (many but I choose not to concede some of them unnecessarily on rmr). I was working with him to get the papers updated from pre-mid UN era to 100% post UN era. That in fact never happened. While I have not (nor the OEM) received official word the papers are in any way expired, to use them requires consulting translation tables for packing instructions and other issues to ship in modern times. It does require a UN-4D (certified) wood crate and other expensive things hence the high minimum one other person validly complained about. That is why they are typically not used and entirely modern papers are used at this time instead.

I have successfully completed Series 6 testing and have a tentative classification of 1.4C (hard not mere exemption) similar to CTI who beat me to it. Good job AC. He has more money than I do, and a 1000% more cooperative AHJ.

So I have been cooling my heels till all that is really fully approved, delivered and the certified boxes arrive (UN4G). I am hoping dead stocks are returned asap to our return point (away from PRK of course), so when the new era arrives we have a 100% new stock new attitude world we are operating in. It will be hard to see how TRA and NAR will justify banning them then but the exchange of noise will be interesting indeed.

But the Freds of the world who don't care about TRA will be fine indeed. So Fred this one is for you bud.

ALL propellants, ALL sizes up to 54mm M :) Maybe higher, we'll see.

Jerry

I generaly agree. But Rogers invited the wackyboy to the party sans ANY papers.

Jerry

That is EXACTLY right. 100%

But in the case of TWO suppliers they actually HAD EX numbers.

Vulcan Systems (blackballed for video) about to release reloadables

U.S. Rockets (blackballled for Rogers partner/president/kosdon issues, passed off as FAA and cert irregularities never actually true) already released reloadables WITH EX MUMBERS

Jerry

Propose it formally so when they reject it, it is on the record.

:)

IT IS TRUE, THAT'S WHAT I FIND MILDLY FUNNY.

BOTH orgs institute a policy TODAY of not requiring ATF permits at any time for any reason. If people want to get them, fine but they are no longer required by the silly little club. The lawyers agree fully so it is a defensible position.

That ONE change would satisfy me a lot.

Please forwward to NAR and TRA leaders at will. Thank you in advance. If they do it, I will get on my knees and thank each of the board members personally at LDRS. Yes even Chuck!

Videos $500 each to the legal fund.

Jerry

here are the certified USR motors excerpted from the 1993 TRA/NAR motor certification list at

- iz

----------------------------------------------------------------- Designation Dur Avg Th TI Rating Type Pro Group

E6-0,4,8 6.7 6.0 40.0 100.0 Exp AP NAR E10-0,4,8 4.0 10.0 40.0 100.0 Exp AP NAR E10-4,8 Exp AP TRA E15-4 Exp FS TRA E20-4,8 Exp AP TRA E25-0,4,8,12 1.6 25.0 40.0 100.0 Exp AP NAR E40-4,8 Exp AP TRA E55-0,5,10,15 0.7 55.0 40.0 100.0 Exp AP NAR F9-0,4,8 5.6 9.0 50.0 62.5 Exp AP NAR F10-0,4,8 8.0 10.0 80.0 100.0 Exp AP NAR F20-0,4,8,12 4.0 20.0 80.0 100.0 Exp AP NAR F40-8,12 Exp AP TRA F80-0,5,10,15,20 1.0 80.0 80.0 100.0 Exp AP NAR F80-12 Exp AP TRA G25-0,5,10,15 4.8 25.0 120.0 75.0 Exp AP NAR G40-12 2.8 34.2 95.9 59.9 Exp AP TRA G45-4 2.7 33.8 91.3 57.0 Exp FS TRA H60-8,12 3.9 53.4 208.2 65.1 Exp AP TRA H90 6.5 12.5 81.0 25.3 Exp AP TRA H110-16 1.9 164.6 312.7 97.7 Exp AP TRA H120-8,12 1.5 142.3 213.5 66.7 Exp AP TRA H120FS-12,16 2.9 80.1 232.2 72.6 Exp FS TRA H160-4,12 Exp AP TRA H240-8,12 1.3 169.0 219.7 68.7 Exp AP TRA I100-8,12 6.0 74.3 445.7 69.6 Exp AP TRA J125-8 Exp AP TRA J880 2.0 547.1 1094.2 85.5 Exp AP TRA L600 Exp AP TRA

--- Notes ---

Type:

Rel Reloadable motor Exp Expendable, single use motor

Pro (Propellant type):

AP Ammonium perchlorate FS Firestarter (AP variant, spark generato

-----------------------------------------------------------------

PhilipD wrote:

the

Iz, I may not be as citeable (that's a compliment) as you but I do remember reading that the BATF told the DOT where national security was at stake (railroad shipping of explosives for example) the BATF would assume authority.

steve

Uh, Jerry? How can a business relationship have several permutations? Aren't you saying that no matter what story you made up, they still didn't believe you?

steve

NAR certs are relabeled errortech. I mean Aero Technology Company.

Note missing data? The very next iteration ALL newly tested motors (especially reloadables) were missing entirely, and all submitted untested motors, disappeared entirely and eneded up on TRA Vegas sport ranges :)

Royally scared Vern. I reminded him I only sold it through HPR (1.3C) channels. He started the anti-sparky NFPA campaign. I love Vern.

My fav.

Typo 181ns The $5 H!!!

Fred's motor!

Chuckipoos fav motor!

Jerry could meet the recertification proccess requirements.

Nope, no usr motor ever had ex numbers!

That is purely false. So if you would be so kind as to send me your real name and address I will correct you properly.

Thank you.

I have BEGGED. Repeatedly. I have been refused. Repeatedly.

Soon you too will be ascimilated by the legion of folks that realize that TRA is Jerry-mander central. Even if you still have an anti-Jerry bias yourself.

You may finally come to the conclusion as so many others have that I am being unfairly targeted.

Some feel "cool, he deserves it", and I feel like you are in that catagory.

Others feel, "so what, he is a dick" but TRA has no right to do that to anyone including a dick.

I only became a dick because of this, so as soon as it stops I will stop being a dick. I am not holding my breath.

Jerry

"Man who says it can not be done should not interrupt man doing it."

- Ancient Chinese Proverb.

"Running a business is about 95% people and 5% economics."

- confidential

"Inventor of the voluntary range fee, the largest revenue generator ever installed by a rocket club."

"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth, and they think it is hell."

- Harry S. Truman