B-10

Hey did the Boeing B-10 have the norden bombsight?Did any of them fly up into combat in the Phillipines in the early stages of the pacfic war? I guess if they did they were mostly just target practice for the Japs? Mike IPMS

Mike,

I am not sure what you are chasing here, but if you are seeking information on the MARTIN B-10, then the answer is that almost anything could have happened in the early war months in the Pacific, but it is highly unlikely that any USAAC B-10s were used to any significant degree, if at all..

Prior to the war, Martin sold 192 of the Martin model 139 to the Soviets (1), Netherlands East Indies, Holland, China, Siam, Argentina (Navy and Army) and Turkey.

The Chinese birds were used to raid Japan in 1938, but dropped only leaflets. The Siamese operated them against both the Japanese and French, and the Dutch East Indies' bombers flew unescorted missions against the Japans Invaders in 1941 and early 1942. One of those DEI bombers flew 14 officials to Australia when Java fell in March of 1942. That airplane was in terrible shape, but was impressed into the USAAF. I know of no actual combat use for this rather dilapidated relic.

When the Japanese captured Siam, they turned over the captured Dutch Martins to the Siamese. These aircraft served there until the late 1940s, and even later in Argentina.

One of those Argentine Martins is the sole known survivor and now resides in the Air Force Museum at Wright Pat.

In exchange for all this information, might I request of you that in the future you refrain from referring to the Japanese as "Japs"? While it might have been acceptable during the period being discussed, it is very disrespectful today.

Norm

Ohhh, I can just hear Boeing's lawyers having a cow. ;) Actually it was a Martin B-10. I can't say about the bombsight with any certainty but I kind of doubt it. If there were any in the Phillippines they were either second line or Phil.A.F. There were B-10s in action with the Netherlands East Indies AF and I think your assessment is close to the truth. Gonna build one, Mike?

Bill Banaszak, MFE

The only multi-engined bomber the Philippine Air Force had was a Keystone B-3A. No USAAF B-10s were still in front-line service by that date, unless the seventeen B-10s still listed as combat-worthy in the Philippines in the spring of 1940 somehow got into combat without it being recorded. Most likely they were scrapped or shipped back to the US, where about a hundred other examples were used for training and target-towing through at least the early part of the war. The one airframe that the USAAF acquired from the NEIAF in Australia was almost an afterthought, purchased in April of 1942 along with a batch of 11 Lockheed Lodestars, solely because its Cyclone engines were interchangeable with those of the Lodestars and thus could be used as spares. However, the plane was assigned a serial number and was then kept on charge until written off in July of 1944. It probably was a unit hack during the interim.

Mark Schynert

Sure. Right after they appologise for what they did during the war. They never have, and they're training their younger generations to live in denial.

I can see it now...

Where's the monkey on his trike and what's he gonna do to the Wiliam's Bros. kits this time!?!?!

"TOUCH MY MONKEY! LOVE MY MONKEY!"

">> In exchange for all this information, might I request of you that in the

I never understood this. "Slant-eyed bastards", "yellow vermin", and "buck-toothed rats", I can understand being offensive. But a contracted form of their proper name? Can someone explain to me why that is "offensive", let alone racist, as some claim? If merely using a contracted form of a name is legitimate reason to warrant offense, then why don't we get offended by the fact that people all over world are calling us "Yanks" or "Amis"?

Are the British readers out there offended by "Brits"? (I know the Scots and Welsh are ticked off by being called "English") Are German readers offended by "Jerry"? Are the Italians bothered by "Ities" Are the Russians enraged by "Russkies"?

Is the fact that a contracted form was used the problem? Are we now going to be shamed into using the full proper form of a country's name in every reference? Sheesh.

KL

"Kurt Laughlin" wrote in news:hjeEd.642$7b.159@trndny05:

Don't forget "Nip" for Nipponese, another term used by the Japanese to refer to themselves. "Sons of Nippon",etc though I have no idea of the derivation.

You forgot "kraut" and "wop". Oddly enough even though I have Austro-German and Italian ancestry I'm not offended by such appelations. Mainly because I know who I am and don't let other people define me. And I didn't march any Jews into ovens or bayonet Chinese babies for fun.

offense,

appelations.

The Major has started early today... Kim M

Whatever you do, don't mention the War.

"Gray Ghost" wrote

True. We don't use the term "Nipponese", so I didn't want to muddy the waters.

Those aren't contractions of legitimate terms, so, more mud, and arguing that X is OK because "I know somebody who doesn't mind it" is not a convincing argument. Besides, my questions are: "If contraction X is inherently bad, why not contraction Y?" and "Must we use the full form name for the citizen of any country to avoid offense?"

KL

That's 'Polak'. This reminded me of an episode on "All in the Family" where Mike is taking Gloria to an art exhibition and Archie, after reading the flyer says he can see why Mike wants to go. The show was by Jackson Pollock.

Anyway, I distinctly remember one bad episode in German class when the teacher started reading off 'jokes'. He found that exceptionally funny. I wonder if he found it funny when the school district fired him for living openly with his boyfriend? I'm sure the kids made their own 'jokes'. I really wasn't too surprised as he always seemed a little weird.

There are far too many things in life to really worry about to let crap like that get to you.

Bill Banaszak

B-24s were well known for their gas fumes collecting in the lower end of the planes. That's why so many are seen with the bomb doors opened a bit.

Bill Banaszak, MFE

Scottish - Jocks Welsh - apart from Welsh what is there

Taff is all that comes to mind - in Wales it refers to someone from Cardiff (the river Taff), but in England it's applied to anyone Welsh. Being Welsh myself I don't find it offensive, but I knew one chap who considered it a massive racial slur - he was a borderline paranoid psychiatric case though, so I think he can be discounted from any meaningful statistics :-) We do get annoyed by being called English, simply because we're not.......... Cheers, Bill.

The C-109 fuel tanker conversions to the B-24 were used over the Hump to get av gas into China in support of B-29 missions. Thier crews took to calling them "C-1-0-BOOMs" after their distressing tendency to explode in mid-air. Presumably the same problem as noted above.

Mark Schynert

Well said! I've been contemplating a response to this issue but you've saved me the trouble.

Indeed...

Respect has to be earned, and the Japanese as a nation and culture have so far not met the requirements for that. Individual Japanese are of course a different matter, and are entitled tot he benefit of doubt like anyone else.

Rob