F-2A Buffalo Model Aircraft

You're using the wrong designation. The Buffalo was designated F2A NOT F-2A. F (Fighter)

2 (2nd fighter model from...) A (Brewster)

So, essentially:

Aircraft Role Number of the aircraft of the above model from a particular manufacturer Manufacturer.

If you're gonna' try and sell stuff on a forum, you should at least get the designation correct.

Heck, they ought to pay ME for getting their advertising right. 8-D

A couple of months ago I was looking for a couple of Matchbox Douglas F3D/F-10 Skyknights. Y'all know what? There were more hits showing up spelled "Skynight" than "Skyknight". Almost 2 - 1, IIRC. And I thought "Lightning" / "Lightening" (as in P-38 or BAC) was a dumbass screw-up!

quoted text -

Correct, but I think in this case the A is just a Series designation, not the manufacturer - it's in the wrong place, even though it is the right letter for Brewster:

Even your own reference lists the Manufacturer as the third position after "Type" and "Manufacturer Series Number". F2A = Fighter; 2nd series; Brewster. An Aircraft Configuration sequence is numeric and follows a dash.

Jack G

has anyone forwarded their posts to this guy yet? but then again he may not care, but it does seem odd to spam a group of people who may have bought from him at some time in the future. not too good to piss off your target market...

Craig

I was also considering the years that the aircraft was produced. I still think it's a Series designator, as what I read had the manufacturer's codes leading the numeric.

Rufus wrote in news:jkmvj.43851$9j6.5204@attbi_s22:

Seconf number is not really a "series" designation. It's more of a model or design indicator.

F2A means it is the 2nd aircraft Brewster designed and had accepted by the Navy. I thin series implies more like a variation on a theme, which os really the dash numeric designator.

Think Grumman

FF-1 F2F F3F-1 F3F-2 F4F-3 F4F-4 F6F-3 F6F-5 etc.

Frank

F2F should also have a -#, of some sort, I think.

Yeah - Type/Model/Series, depending upon the period. But now that you've jogged me with the above, I think yer right about the Buffalo...the A3D (All Three Dead...) would be another example.

...I know it's Type/Model/Series today...gotta start living in the past.

Not exactly.

Ordinarily, the F2A designation would indicate the second -fighter- aircraft (not the second aircraft period) built by Brewster and accepted by the Navy.

But, in this particular case, there had previously been an FA fighter built by General Aviation Corp. (formerly Atlantic Aviation) in the early 1930s when the manufacturer's designator "A" had been assigned to that company.

GAC went out of business in 1933 (IIRC) and the "A" designation was re-assigned to Brewster in 1935 - the "B" designation having already been assigned to Boeing and unavailable.

Thus when the Buffalo was ordered by the Navy, it was assigned the designation F2A to avoid confusion with the earlier General Aviation FA fighter - even though it was the first Brewster fighter accepted by the Navy.

Another peculiarity of the Navy system was that the suffix letter referred to the actual manufacturer of the aircraft and not the original designer.

Thus, the General Motors-built versions of the F4F Wildcat became the FM-1 and FM-2 even though Grumman had designed the aircraft and the Brewster-built versions of the F4U Corsair became the F3A even though it had been originally designed by Vought.

The one exception seems to have been the J2F-6 "Duck" which was built by Columbia Aircraft Corp. but which retained the Grumman "F" designator. I've never been able to figure out just why they did that.

Cheers,

Ok...I did read something about the manufacturer's designation being placed in a two-letter position before the numeric, but being that the F4F and the FM-2 were produced during the same era, how did it get moved from end to before? i.e. - why wasn't it "FA-2 Buffalo" or "F2M Wildcat"?

Nothing is ever simple regarding military aircraft designators, marking, or finishes.

The prototype of the Brewster Buffalo was designated XF2A-1

The Brewster Fighters ordered for the US Navy on the initial contract in

1938 were designated "F2A-1" 11 were delivered to the Navy. 43 of these were released to Finland in 1940.

The prototype XF2A-1 was converted to become the XF2A-2 in 1939.

The F2A-2 was ordered in 1940 with 43 delivered to the US Navy.

An export version was ordered by the British and the Netherlands East Indies. These were given the Brewster Model Designation "399"

There were 108 F2A-3 aircraft delivered to the US Navy in 1941.

There never was an "F2A"

Jack G.

-snip-

The Navy didn't use the "1" in the sequence designation. There was, for instance, no Grumman F1F or Curtiss SB1BC - those aircraft were simply designated as FF-1 (for "fighter" and "Grumman") and SBC-1 (for "scout bomber" and "Curtiss"), the "-1" indicating the first model of the basic aircraft. The FF went on to have an FF-2 model (dual control version of the FF-1) while the SBC[1] went on to SBC-3 and SBC-4 editions with different engines.

The second fighter aircraft from Grumman was then designated the F2F-1 and the second scout bomber from Curtiss as the SB2C-1.

For special purpose or minor variations, a final letter suffix was attached to the basic model designation - thus we got the F6F-5N or the F4U-1D.

This final letter designation was used both to designate a special purpose aircraft variation (thus the "N" for nightfighter in F6F-5N) or as a sequence designator for minor variations in the basic model (thus the "D" in F4U-1D for the fifth minor variation of the F4U-1 - the F4U-1A being the second variation of the basic F4U-1).

[1] Strictly speaking, there was no SBC-1. The XSBC-1 and XSBC-2 were protoype aircraft and the SBC-3 was the first production model.

Cheers,

The number wasn't what I was getting at - it's the order of the letter designators with respect to the numeric positionally in the string. The order "F4F and "FM-2" appear to conflict in opposition to each other with any "standard" for building the string given that production of both aircraft were within the same period as my previous reference link cited.

Another example - why couldn't it have been "FU4-1D" instead of F4U-1D?

-snip-

There's no conflict - just the number designator was omitted from the designation of the first aircraft in each manufacturer's sequence.

"FM-2" was the functional equivalent to "F1M-2" but by convention the "1" sequence number was omitted and just understood.

The sequence number was only used for the second and subsequent aircraft of a particular type from a manufacturer.

Because that would not conform to the Navy's designation system.

The second character in the designation is always a numeral indicating the type sequence by the manufacturer -except- for the first aircraft of that type by that manufacturer where the sequence number ("1") was omitted.

Cheers,

Ok...I understand about omitting "1", but F4F and FM-2 still seems inconsistent to me...but they are what they is...your SBC example makes sense and I can follow that one.

I would have expected "F4F" and "F2M" or "FF-4" and "FM-2" as consistent pairs if there was a standard. Thinking about it, I guess the design didn't actually originate at GM, they just built them...so technically, it was an F4F-2, manufactured by GM, which would make it an FM-2?