FS 16440 Light Gull Gray

It depends. See the F-104 pics here for some dramatic examples of the effects of lighting:

Clean ones or dirty ones? gd&r...

That was similar to my reaction when I bought my first tin of Humbrols' Gull Grey. I had been expecting a light grey with a hint of blue.

Just to excite you more, I used to use ModelMaster's Gloss Gull Grey on model railroad covered hoppers. It came quite close to most of the prototypes rolling by here.

Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.

That's a worthwhile site, Al. Thanks for pointing us there.

Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.

Great site Al - now bookmarked. Thanks.

A few other things that significantly affect the percieved color (some mentioned only slightly on that web site).

1. The film used. For slides, Kodachrome and Ektachrome (slide films) have distinctly different tones - Ektachrome is slightly bluer and I think gives a more accurate color outdoors. Personal opinion only (but supported by many pros). Also Kodak, Fuji and Agfa (print films) all will show different tones on the same subject

1. The lighting conditions - was it cloudy (how much - thin or thick?) or sunny? Morning, Noon or Late day?

2. Angle of the shot. Because of #2, the angle matters.

1. How weathered is the paint? Even on actual aircraft, the tones change as the paint weathers.

2. What lot # was the paint manufactured from? Even in the same squadron, you will find variations in tone for the same FS# - they don't all come out the can the same.

1. Color in photos (and negatives) fades with time and depends totally on how well the original negative or slide was stored.

Unless you know the answers to all the above questions, you can't be sure what you are looking at in that photo is real.

The #1 best method of getting the correct color is to paint the original with the color you intend to use and see which matches best. I actually did that when I was flying TA-4J's in the training command many moons ago. I discovered that Floquil Reefer Orange (Dio-Sol version) was a dead-on match for the South-Texas weathered International Orange panels on our aircraft. So much so that the maintenance folks could not find where I painted!

Bottom line is this: all these yayhoos that tell you the color is not right on your model don't have a clue what they are talking about. First, they haven't been around that particular aircraft (in all likelyhood) and second, I'll bet they never ran a military paint shop

- I have, and probably a few others out there - but we're not the ones telling you your paint job is wrong 'cuz we know better! I won't even get into scale effect, but use the color you think is right based on your own research. You'll be fine.

John Alger IPMS 10906 Charlotte Scale Modelers

The clean ones. The dirty ones take more weathering. One thing I didn't do was 'vandalise' them with paint. I did get into a bit of a tussle with some folks over on rmr a few years back over their producing decals to replicate grafitti. So many people seemed to be into putting it on their models that I decided to cease grousing about it. ;]

Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.

You're welcome. I just ran across it the other day doing a Google search for the CMYK values of Insignia Yellow and wound up hitting the jackpot! :-)

I agree for the most part. There are just too many variables to be pedantic about exact colors.

Oh my word, what an excellent site! Thanks for the link, Al!

You're welcome! I'm surprised that nobody here has run across it before now.

Thanks Al. I hadn't seen that reference before. I knew about the various effects of lighting on color but the pictures in the article dramatically illustrate it.

I spent a lot of time around Lt Gull Gray & White airplanes. In general FS 16440 is as you described, it's a "warm" gray and not bluish at all. IMHO Xtracolor & Testors Modelmaster have this color down quite well. I think the Osprey profiles are nice, but to my mind they show a bit more contrast than is for real. They may do that on purpose just to show the contrast betwen the gray and the white.

Enzo Matrix wrote:

I have to agree with the original post that indicates that Light Gull Gray seems a little on the brownish side. That is also my impression from seeing real US Navy aircraft.

There is a similar phenomenon with USAF ADC Gray FSx6473. In photos of F-102s and F-106s, the aircraft most often seen in this color, it looks like they are painted a light gray color with a touch of blue. When you see these aircraft close up in real life, the gray has a definite greenish tint to it. I think the blueish shade seen in photos, especially those taken in-flight, comes from the reflection of the sky and photographic film sensitivities. That said, ADC Gray on a 1/72 scale F-106 just looks too green to me so I substitute Testors Canadian Voodoo Gray FS16515. This isn't the color called out in the F-106 Technical Order but it definetly looks "more right" on a model than the official color. I'm trying to not stick to the "official" colors so rigidly and am trying to go with what "looks right". I think it makes the models look more authentic.

Martin

Thanks, John. I think that's pretty good advice.

I'm using Xtracrylix, which is the acrylic version of Xtracolor. I like it, even though it wasn't what I was expecting.

Thanks for the input, Don.

It's a light neutral grey... however, the FS standard allows for a 20% color variance so I've seen it range from an almost blue grey to a very warm brownish grey.

DJ

Thanks, Martin. I am sticking with the Xtracrylix paint.

I have noticed that some USN aircraft exhibit a bit of a "patchwork quilt" effect on the uppersurfaces, where some panels seem to have weathered differently to others. As I mentioned in my original post, I've noticed that the Xtracrylix RAF Light Aircraft Grey is very similar to the Light Gull Grey, but without the brownish hue. I think it might be interesting to mask off some of these discoloured panels and give them a very light overspray of Light Aircraft Grey - just enough to make a bit of a difference.

That's another technique that I've never tried before. All this trying new techniques is fun! :-D

Enzo,

It is not so much that the weather differently as it is they are often actually painted at different times. There is a constant battle to prevent corrosion during deployments aboard the aircraft carriers. Operations go on around the clock, and unless there is something seriously wrong with an aircraft, it does not go down to the hanger deck and out of the weather. Any fastener or panel that is removed to access the interior must have all the bare material surfaces touched up for corrosion prevention when it is reinstalled. Time is usually very limited and the touch up work is often done in poor light. Usually by some guy with a can of spray paint that might or might not (usually not) be exactly the same color as the surrounding paint. If the spray can label says it is the right color, it is used. Sometimes it is even used if it is even close to the right color.

The whole airframe generally gets pretty serious use with little regard for how it looks. By the end of the deployment most of them look pretty beat up and well used.

On the opposite side of this is the fact that most of the really impressive CAG color schemes seem to occur during deployments. Apparently someone has the time to do fancy paint work during those times.

And thanks for that as they usually make great modeling subjects.

Norm

You're welcome. :)