[GEN] Lawyers Lay Waste to Military Models Industry

Frank,

I'd bet the CEO of the company doesn't even know this is happening. I see this as the legal department making up something else to justify their existence. One thing we miss here is, in general the government pays a company to design a defense system - the government owns the design. As an example Rockwell won the GPS contract and put the system in orbit. The government recompeted for the next series and Rockwell lost. The system changed hands again after that. The Government owned and paid for the design. I would find it hard to justify that an airframe manufacturer ownes the design to a fighter aircraft to the point that a model couldn't be made without their getting paid off.

It would also be interesting to get the Pentagon's view on this as they (and the companies) seem to be doing everything to advertize their systems and their use to the voters. The average company spends big bucks hyping their product in magazines like Aviation Week. Then they turn down free advertizing via kits - doesn't make sense. I tend to think if you went to talk to the marketing department they'd be pushing for the model and giving assistance - It's their job to make the company's product visible. The Legal Department on the other hand would be "protecting intellectual property" - This justifys their existemce. I wonder if any of the kit companies have tried to deal with other entities other than legal. Might be intresting if someone sued the company for denying their use of public information - remember the freedom of information act.

Val Kraut

Reply to
Val Kraut
Loading thread data ...

bring back the gibbet!

Reply to
e

Yep, a fair trial, and then we hang the creep! ;)

Bill Banaszak, MFE

Reply to
Mad-Modeller

I'm glad he got caught. Lawyers (like those in every other profession) sometimes commit crimes or civil wrongs, and when they do, they should get hammered.

Mark Schynert

Reply to
Mark Schynert

What do you want to bet Micahel would sue over unauthorized styrene kits made in his appearance, even if they in no way resemble the natural condition of any human being? Eh, way off the point, but at least it sort of sticks the thread back into modeling. Jackson is entitled to protect his personal appearance from commerical exploitation as much as am I, the difference being his aspect is actually worth something on the market.

Michael Jackson certainly does deserve a vigorous defense, and I'm really happy he's going to spend his own money rather than the public's getting one. As one of my professors in law school pointed out, the bast reason to give the worst creep a vigorous defense is that then you can sleep soundly if he's convicted anyway, knowing there was no reasonable doubt he deserved what he got. And if you get the obvious creep off, then perhaps, despite his creepiness, he really didn't commit that particular crime. Still, I wouldn't defend MJ myself. Apart from not having the right skills set, there are certain crimes I simply cannot help adjudicate, either as an attorney or as a juror. I would go in with a presumption of criminal intent in most molestation cases and all rape cases--I'm not fit to serve on a jury in those kind of cases, and I would have to so state in the voir dire. BTW, I only called the defense outlandish because of the very intentional pre-trial publicity campaign, which is utterly atypical in criminal matters.

Mark Schynert

Reply to
Mark Schynert

I think the standard is 25 to life, depending on the pleading (it could be a one-strike offense). The parole standard would then be something like 20 years.

Mark Schynert

Reply to
Mark Schynert

But he must have committed some other crime, huh? Sheesh, I can't believe I'm more liberal than you on the rights of a criminal defendant.

Reply to
Al Superczynski

We caught them... We tried them ... And found them guilty under rule .303

Reply to
AM

Noooooooo, we make sure his cell mate is ugly, nasty and hung...........

Reply to
Ron

Well MJ is an outlandish clown so perhaps the publicity campaign is appropriate. I just wish they's top plastering the mutant over my TV screen every few days. Can I sue because they keeping ruining my dinner?...;)

Reply to
Ron

Sure. Anyone can try to state a cause of action for pretty much anything. You won't win, though, unless MJ suffers a wardrobe failure during arraignment. In that case, stand in a very long line.

Mark Schynert

Reply to
Mark Schynert

I was thinking more along the lines of suing the media jackals than MJ........;)

Reply to
Ron

In article , Al Superczynski wrote:

You've never practiced law. Oh, I fully endorse all the constitutional protections and adjunct rules we have to protect the rights of the defendant, because there are innocents who get caught up in the machinery of the criminal prosecution process. What most people don't realize is how good the system is at spitting out the innocent early in the process. Out of 100 potential felony arrests, you probably see 30 potential defendants released within 24 hours with no charges filed, another 10 or so held for parole violations but not charged on the primary offense, another 30 released after charges are dismissed during the course of investigation, a handful released with charges dismissed because of police negligence or intentional misconduct, and most of the rest plea bargain. The ones that go to trial are either unable to plea bargain because of the magnitude of the offense or it being a third strike, or they truly believe they are innocent, or they are so sociopathic that they don't get that their behavior ought to have consequences. Some of those who go to trial really are innocent, and a few beyond that get 'not guilty' verdicts because of evidentiary circumstance, impressions made on the jury, or simple prosecutorial incompetence. It's not such a bad system that we have to keep a little of the dirty bath water in order to keep the baby. However, the fact is (on a strictly statistical basis) that most of those being tried for felonies have probably committed the acts with which they are charged. Statistics are no comfort to the individual who did nothing wrong, yet finds himself at trial, and that's the best reason, IMO, that a vigorous defense is essential, and correctly characterized as a right.

Mark Schynert

Reply to
Mark Schynert

Not being an attorney of course not, but I've successfully acted Pro Se in a child support case brought against me by the Commonwealth of Virginia. In any case, the fact that I'm not an attorney doesn't mean that I'm totally ignorant of the law.

But my point remains that if found 'not guilty' they shouldn't be viewed as probably having committed some other illegal act.

Reply to
Al Superczynski

I have no argument with what you've written but I disagree that CEO's have no idea wouldn't know. If they truly don't, they should as their subordinates should be reporting this as a function of their position. In the whole, big scheme of things, I'd imagine this income being a drop in the bucket for a company such as Boeing, Lockheed, Hughes or any of their successors/parent companies.

Agreed. Maybe we can educate the Pentagon on this? To whom do I write? ;-)

Frank Kranick

Reply to
The Kranicks

As an Example there was a news story a while back - Lockheed Martin owned part of a company that was being bought out. The day before the deal was finalized a satellite failed as a result Lockheed got 30 Million less - It didn't even cause a ripple in the stock price.

By the time the reports get up to the CEO level my bet is there's a one liner about going after a total of X Million on intellectual property infringement with little or no detail. If the number gets questioned they've got a spread sheet with the items listed - so they can prove they didn't just make it up. And hey so the projected profits from the modeling companies just didn't work out.

I worked with a merketing guy some years back. He'd hand in a list of contacts that month - he'd list the guy he talked to and the company as two separate entries to help justufy his existence, nobody ever caught on.

Val Kraut

Reply to
Val Kraut

The only dumb statement I read was yours sir! Without clients, lawyers would be out of business. Just wait until someone rips you off or you get sued by a litigious faker in a neck brace and you need to coming running for legal help. Indeed there are unethical lawyers out there but the trade as a whole has a well settled purpose: there are always two sides to every story and any resolution should be fair. For you to call that unethical shows your naivety.

Reply to
jwadetjpp

"Ron" wrote

A solution for this problem and "not enough time to model":

Turn off the television.

KL

Reply to
Kurt Laughlin

"Mark Schynert" wrote

Or before. My brother-in-law is a federal LEO. In his experience the US attorneys will not even consider filing a criminal indictment unless the case is a stone cold lock.

KL

Reply to
Kurt Laughlin

With respect to the Jackson case I think the public assumes he's guilty on the basis of his buying off the last kid to bring charges. It may have been a profitable money-raising scheme for the kid and his parents but if Jackson was innocent he didn't do himself any favours by settling like that. 'He' will always be suspected of being a child molester because of that.

Bill Banaszak

Reply to
Mad-Modeller

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.