KM Cruiser Question

So ship experts, was the Prinz Eugen a Hipper-class cruiser?
Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.

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Yes, she was. Five units total: Hipper (scuttled in Kiel Harbor 3 May 45 after being damaged by RAF air raid); Blucher (sunk 9 Apr 40 by Norweigan coastal guns and torpedoes in Oslo Fijord); Prinz Eugen (survived, handed over to USN, survived Bikini A-bomb tests, but sank at Kwajalein afterwards); Lutzow (sold to USSR 1940 incomplete, never finished by Soviets), and Seydlitz (never completed).
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Agreed on the above. However, all three units were somewhat different. Bluecher was actually the first laid down, but owing to delays in completiong Admiral Hipper was completed first and the class therefore took that name. Bluecher got the Atlantic stem during her final completion, while Hipper got it during a later rebuild. Prinz Eugen was it seems somewhat larger and heavier. The hulls of all three where a bit different in terms of layout of portholes, etc., if I remember correctly. Very pretty warships!
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Gernot Hassenpflug
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: : Agreed on the above. However, all three units were somewhat : different. :     Sounds like the USN Yorktown class ships.
                            Bruce
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"I like bad!" Bruce Burden Austin, TX.
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On 1/31/2011 10:00 PM, Matt Wiser wrote:

Interesting facts. I gather that the above Ltzow was not the pocket battleship of the same name.
Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.
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No, Lutzow was the Deutschland before, and name-ship of the "pocket battleship" trio. Which interestingly, also had a similar issue, with the 3rd in the line, Admiral Graf Spee, being an improved version.
Let's move on to the light cruisers then, just as much fun!
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Gernot Hassenpflug
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Cruiser Lützow sold making the name available when it was decided to rename Deutchland. The propaganda if the allies had had the luck to sink the Deutchland would have been unbearable for the german leadership. And later they decided not to use the heavy units as a regular navy anyway.....
Claus Gustafsen, Denmark
"Gernot Hassenpflug" skrev i meddelelsen wrote:

No, Lutzow was the Deutschland before, and name-ship of the "pocket battleship" trio. Which interestingly, also had a similar issue, with the 3rd in the line, Admiral Graf Spee, being an improved version.
Let's move on to the light cruisers then, just as much fun!
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Gernot Hassenpflug
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On 2/1/2011 3:06 AM, Gernot Hassenpflug wrote:> <pre wrap>

Sounds good to me, let's...
Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.
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I found lots of info on Wikpedia and some pics too.
Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.
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Maybe look at bismarck-class.dk
It has plenty of info, including camouflage drawings and fit at various times of the careers of all the KM larger ships. Very nice site indeed.
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Gernot Hassenpflug
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On 2/4/2011 4:01 AM, Gernot Hassenpflug wrote:> <pre wrap>

Thanks Gernot!
Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.
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That's where I went for a lot of the gen on the Lord Clives, I'd had some recall the French had used the SMS Prinz Eugen as a target (unfortunately in deep water, there's bits of a WW1 German Dreadnought in shallow water - IIRC, off Brittany - that they were still shooting at until the later 20th Century). I was on firmer ground with the Condottieri class, as they were some of the first models I scratchbuilt (crudely, from balsa and card) to wargame with, based on 1:1200 drawings which appeared in "Model Boats" back in the late '60s.

Cheers,
Moramarth
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Thinking of odd modelling projects, it might make an interesting group (albeit probably with a *lot* of scratchbuilding) to build all of the ships named for this chap; four to my knowledge, and all in different navies! As well as the KM Prinz Eugen the Germans Italian allies had the light cruiser Eugenio di Savoia, the latter being the longest surviving of them all, serving with the Greek navy as the Elli until the 1970s. The Italians claimed Eugene because of his Savoyard ancestry (he was born in Paris but IIRC - did sign himself Eugenio) and his assistance to his cousin the Duke of Savoy in breaking the French siege of Turin in 1706, despite their antipathy towards the Austrians for whom he was a great national hero. He wasnt a national hero in Germany, but the KM Prinz Eugen was named for the WW1 Austrian navy battleship SMS Prinz Eugen, as by the time of the Anschluss Austria no longer had a blue-water navy but did have a lot of very experienced and skilled sailors the Kriegsmarine could make use of. Despite such overtures one Austrian U-boat expert, a certain Kapitan von Trapp, preferred instead to go on a singing tour of the US The situation in WW1 was even more bizarre as the two vessels named for Eugene were on opposite sides. As well as the Austrian battleship, there was HMS Prince Eugene as in GB he was fondly remembered as Marlboroughs sidekick; the RN named its big monitors for Generals, probably because such ungainly ships didnt justify a proper sailors name HMS Prince Eugene was quite interesting as although originally built round a twin 12 turret removed from the Pre- Dreadnought BB HMS Hannibal she was one of three of the Lord Clive Class intended to receive the 18 guns from HMS Furious, although in the end she was the only one where the conversion was not completed, probably as she was to receive Furious aft gun, the only one the Large Light Cruiser actually shipped (General Wolfe got the Forward gun and Lord Clive the spare). The 18 did not replace the 12 turret, which was left in place, but in a mount aft of the superstructure fixed to starboard it could really only elevate with limited training which was mainly achieved by swinging the ship while shells and charges stored in the magazine forward were moved to the gun by a light railway laid on the upper deck.

Cheers
Moramarth
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: : but in a mount aft of the : superstructure fixed to starboard it could really only elevate with : limited training which was mainly achieved by swinging the ship : while shells and charges stored in the magazine forward were moved to : the gun by a light railway laid on the upper deck. :     Okay. That is - just bizarre.
    Now I am going to have to do some research on the "Lord Clive" class of vessels. :-)
                            Bruce
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"I like bad!" Bruce Burden Austin, TX.
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On Feb 5, 4:10 am, snipped-for-privacy@austin.rr.com (Bruce Burden) wrote:

I went Wiki-wild when checking them out - it's strange what one learns. I've never been that much of a Monitor fan, but I mourned the recent destruction of the remains of HMS Handy, and wish there was more being done for HMVS Cerberus. She was more of a Coast Defence Ship, really, as was HMS Glatton, whose hulk is entombed under the Car Ferry Terminal at Dover. It's not the only warship are under a car park, the DKM Admiral Scheer is too...

Cheers,
Moramarth
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