Re: B-17 Wing Covering Thickness

Yea. The massive B-2 and CVN losses we suffered in Desert Storm, OEF, and OIF have surely been devastating...

Which may have something to do with the Army's and Marines' current recruiting problems. The 'Army of One' slogan may yet turn out to have been cruel irony... :(

so the traditional inducement of employment in a crappy economy isn't working? or are things better than i thought?

The problem is that society doesn't value manual skills anymore. Look at the wages paid to any skilled manual worker - boilermakers, scaffolders, plant operators etc (the guys who actually DO THE WORK and PRODUCE something) and contrast that with what the IT guys and management get. My little brother makes knives and swords as a hobby/obsession/pay for itself kinda thing - he does a damn fine job, but has trouble selling them for what they're really worth - we live in an instant coffee world, and people seem to think that it all just happens, with no-one's sweat or blisters contributing. Someone earlier mentioned the rural areas (farmers etc)- how many of us think about the early mornings dairymen have so we can have milk with our Cap'n Crunch in the morning? And so it goes.

And the problem with the kids ain't the kids - it's the parents. They've given the kids things on a platter all their lives (usually with the best intentions of saving junior from 'what I had to put up with' ) and when the time to leave home rolls around, it's a big scary world out there that just don't care about their feelings or desires. And the sheltered kids suffer for it - let them be teased and bullied, let them learn to stand on their own feet and fer gosh sakes, teach them the value of work! But I'm preaching to the converted, I'm sure.

RobG

once again heinlein had it right. "don't ruin your children's lives by making them easy". (may not be exact word for word...but you get it.)

Pick up a copy of the DVD for last year's "The Alamo". The "audio commentary" track was provided, in part, by "one of us": Victoria College (TX) Professor (and modeler) Stephen L. Hardin. Those of you who spent time in Austin, will know Steve. He served as one of the two historians on the film production. His world-reknown book "Texian Iliad" was like "the Bible" on the film set. Copies were everywhere.

Steve is a big fan of military figures, WWI aircraft...and scantily-clad female Vampire figures...lol.

amen bro.

RobG

Al Superczynski wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Chortle. The one thing I've come to realize in my studies is that airpower in the theoretical sense hasn't changed much since the 1930s. The Brits, Germans and the US had close support down. US and British had strategic bombing down. What's evolved and improved are the delivery methods and nature of the targets. The 50's and 60's Cold War was really an extension of WWII doctrines with faster longer range aircraft carrying much more destructive munitions.

Now with truly precision targeting targets can be hit and destroyed more thoroughly with much less risk to fewer men. I am struck by the smilairty between the F-15 and the B-17. Approximately the same size the 105 can carry more bombs further doing a job that would have taken a what squadron or group risking at most 2 men vs. 200 to 600. The difference being that the F-15 could bomb more precisely putting more of it's load directly on target than the area bombing that was 1940s US precision targeting.

I believe the same thing obtains with land and seaborne forces. Because the desctructive capacity is so much greater per fighting man I don't think you would need (or have for that matter) the time to conscript, train and deploy millions of men. Not the least of which is that if you look at the relative simplicity of 1940s era weapon vs modern ones. Look how many 100,000s of men joined the Army Air Foces and were trained to be pilot, flight engineers, navigators, bombadiers, aerial gunners (the last

What you need is a larger ready force, because that's likely to be all you're going to have for the majority of the serious fighting. I mean even if we came to blows with the Chinese could anyone imagine ascenario wherein one or the other crosses the Pacific and invades and occupies the other?

The Falklands will probably be the last WWII style war fought. I believe it bore many resembalances to the US Pacific campaign, say SWPA in the manner in which the island was approached prepared and invaded and the Argies brave aircrews - much like Japanese flying from Rabaul to attack American warships down the Solomons chain.

I am giving thought to writing a book about the evolution of warplanes particularly medium bombers and their use as tactical and strategic assests, thier increases and size and speed and thier eventual merger with fighters and thier disappearance as a distinct type and how the concept of strategic bombing has evolved with the technical capabilities. .

So? Which likely US adversary *is* a first-rate power?

Yeah...that's a situation that should REALLY scare everyone...

Maybe, but those were land wars, against a country that had been hobbled by economic sanctions and possesed no real naval armament...again - your comparison is off the mark.

What do you think might happen if we engaged, say...China?..

Yeah - that's when I stopped making jewelry...when the marerials became worth more than my workmanship...

Agreed. And the problem now is thinking that all wars can be fought like Desert Storm...though I think that is shifting.

Also agreed. And to take ti even further, UCAVs and cruise missles can do the job with even less risk to freindly fighters.

And that's the rub - you can't just conscript the "common man" anymore. A modern soldier needs to be educated to a much greater degree just to operate all these confounded systems.

Nukes. No other option, IMO...the numbers of personel involved in any invasion...staggering. Let's hope diplomacy carries the day here.

Agreed.

...and thier replacement by standoff and cruise weaponry.

China.

ROFL! Get back to me when the Red Chinese have a blue water navy and a first-rate air force.

Before or after we cut off its access to oil from the Americas, Europe, Africa, and the Mideast?

I think they must be better than you thought...

Between EPA'ing ourselves out of industry, off shoring because labor is cheaper and bean counting for short term gains.....we're in serious industrial trouble.

China is getting there rapidly.