So, any other way of handling this?

If this is the same D. Geraths we came to know and love here at rms, I'm not surprised at this. Without knowing the quality of the work judged all I can say is Mr. Geraths usually has a much bigger opinion of himself than is warranted. AIR, he builds very decent paleo-creatures but he is reluctant to share any techniques with us.
Bill Banaszak, MFE
Reply to
Bill Banaszak
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Thanks! I actually REALLY faded...as I was not even there...lol. My stuff was entered by a friend.
I heard it was a very tough show. In my experience, even getting a Bronze at a show like Valley Forge, Chicago, SCAHMS, etc...is far more difficult than winning a First Place at an IPMS Nationals; so any recognition is greatly appreciated.
>
Reply to
Greg Heilers
We've just had our 11th annual show. We introduced a no-sweeps rule about the 2nd or 3rd year in, just to encourage modellers who may not otherwise have won anything and therefore may not have come back. It takes a bit of checking after the judging's done, but it never causes real concerns and the return rate is high - a lot of guys who will *probably* never win a 1st place keep on coming back, trying to get there, encouraged by their 2nds, 3rds and Highly Commendeds. Anyone who's entered into the show can be a judge and we judge in threes when we can, to make the process a little easier. Judges don't judge any category they have an entry in, but that's about the only restriction we have. For the last 3 years, we've had no complaints from anyone (that I know of!), and we like it that way. BTW, we made a conscious decision a looong time ago to stay as an informal group - no elected officials, no constitution, no BS. And no Big Brother from IPMS looking over our shoulders and criticising the way we run our shows! And we like it that way - and so do most of our visitors.
RobG (the Aussie one) Mackay Scale Modellers.
Reply to
Rob Grinberg
See Link Below. Category 500 is Space Fact/ Sci-fi/ and Fantasy
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In the IPMS USA Competition Handbook Space Fact/ Sci-Fi/ Fantasy is lumped in category 600.
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Looks ok to me. Kits judged in the right category. No Star Trek listed here.
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LD
Reply to
Larry Deal
Uh Kim, I have judged in the past. Were we in the same room? I believe even last year I volunteered to be a judge but I was never called upon.
Anyone who wants to be on the judges side of the fence should judge at least once. This way they will see first hand what is involved.
Max Bryant
Reply to
Max Bryant
And Greg Heilers opened up and revealed to the world news:nJ3zc.12420$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
Greg,
True, a lot of "heart ache" and time could be saved by visiting the local trophy shop and buying their own trophy. But I get the feeling that ONE of the MAIN reason for some of these individuals is the acceptance of their peers. And buying their own trophy would negate that. . .
Digital_Cowboy
- -- Live Long and Prosper . + . + . . .. .. . ______________________. . . . __ . \_______NCC_1701______|) .______.---'--'---.________ || || /-------.__________.-------/ /============/___/ '--' . \==\_____________|(- + . . + . . . . . + + .. . + . . + . . . . . . . + . .
Reply to
Digital_Cowboy
Modeling is a hobby. True. Modeling is an outlet for personal creativity. Ok. Modeling is about recogniition from your peers. Kinda, thats always a nice thing. Modeling is a link with your past. You bet. Modeling is about winning. Hmm if this is your goal then what the hell go for it. Just keep in mind that self criitsism is never completly factual nor is it a task one takes on with great relish .Others can and do look a little harder at your faults. If all you want is to be the best and you have the talent, the skills and the discipline, you will be. If you're just as good as the other guy and only just as good, then your going to have to share the accolades with those who are also just as good.. If winning first place is everything to you and this hobby is where you have decided to excell and be the undisputed best, and you aren't, then maybe you need to broaden your horizan a little. Kind of like life in general ain't it? As to the question this post presented; Yes there is. He stated his objections you responded. If your response was clear precise and factual then no further comments are necessary either from us or anyone else not responsible for the inforcement of the rules you adhere to. Definitly not in an open forum. Why you would want an opinion from someone who has never entered a model contest nor even been to one is beyond me. Which by the way, posting here is just what you did.
Reply to
ARMDCAV
If that's your perception of IPMS, then you should reconsider. For as long as I can remember, the national IPMS policy is to not interfere in the decisions of local clubs to determine their own categories, themes, judging styles and criteria. (Anti-IPMSers - please don't rehash that ridiculous argument about nudes.) I've attended IPMS sanctioned contests where judging standards ranged from classic IPMS to MMS to AMPS and to open judging as used by figure modelers. Sometimes this local autonomy is what brings the most criticism against IPMS, because of perceived "home cooking" by a local group under the "guise" of IPMS, when in truth, IPMS has no control over the local show. There are always bad apples in every organization, but don't disparage an entire group for the sins of a small minority.
The only exception to local autonomy is at the IPMS national and regional contests, which by constitution (and logic) must adhere to the judging criteria established by IPMS to provide for consistency in judging from year to year. IPMS judging criteria (there are no fixed rules) is based primarily upon comparative quality of construction, execution and skill. Rivet Counters and Color Police are strongly DIScouraged and do not represent the vast majority of IPMS contest judges. Under IPMS judging criteria, such matters are only considered when there are no other distinctions between competing entries or perhaps determining category placement (I.e. fantasy or historical, etc.) - both very rare occurrences.
I've been a member of IPMS for about 12-15 years now and about 8 years ago helped charter our 30 year old club as an IPMS club. The club met informally before being chartered and still does. Our "officers" are only on paper to satisfy organizational requirements of IPMS charter. IPMS knows this and doesn't care. IPMS's only concern is to unite modelers locally and from around the country and world, and to promote modeling in general. They do not interfere with our group at all. IPMS has help us with advertising our shows and sharing resources such as Make & Take projects, judges and vendors, not to mention helping hands and insurance. IPMS's judging philosophy (unfairly maligned by some on this group) is to encourage all modellers of all subjects and media to participate on an equal footing. The past perception of "planes only" or "plastic only" does not reflect current membership or attitudes on the local and national levels. The past is gone.
Keep on modeling and please reconsider joining IPMS. There is strength in numbers and in my opinion our modeling community needs to organize to to keep pace with competition from other mainstream hobby/leisure markets drawing away manufacturers and retailers.
Thanks for reading this.
Kaliste Saloom IPMS #30703 Lafayette, LA
Reply to
Kaliste Saloom
Sure....and that is a valid point. But if it were *really* the case in this example, the individual should have sought the accaptance and feedback from the *hundreds* of other "peers" who had attended the show, as opposed to focusing on the "opinions" of a small group (three perhaps?) of "Judges For The Day".
Remember, the opinion of a "judge" is really no more valid than the opinion of the "non-judge/attendee". And yes... judging is *not* all that easy. And it is also *not* fun. I have judged many times, and on virtually every occasion, I did not enjoy it. You get hot, you get a headache, you have to deal with delays in processing the results (anyone who advocates using computers in a model contest needs to be given an "attitude adjustmant"...lol); you almost always get stuck with someone with a personality with which you do *not* get along with....and you often get in a pissy mood; knowing that you would *rather* be out enjoying the show. There is no way you can be 100% objective. It is all an "opinion game". So an entrant should not really be overly concerned with the results. Tomorrow is a new day.
:o)
Reply to
Greg Heilers
I had the opportunity to be a judge at contest in New Bern a couple years ago. I found it to be very educational as well as challenging. I can say honestly that there is NOTHING easy about it. :) I recommend that anyone who enters in contests should volunteer to judge at least once. Who knows, maybe it should be mandatory.( just kidding).
Bill
Reply to
Darkside24us
Bill
I have gone to the last two New Bern shows and I thoroughly enjoyed them as far as a local show is concerned. I will be there again this year. Hope to see you there! I was head Automotive judge two years ago.
Scott A. Bregi
Reply to
Scott A. Bregi AKA The Model Hobbit
I pretty much agree with your take. Far too often, people get out of joint because they didn't take the basics seriously (misalignment, bad seam work, glue blobs, failure to neutralize sprue nubs) but do trick the model out with exposed gun bays and engines. Judges do differ from causal viewers because judges have to find the best model in a group. Viewers ooh and ahhh over the exquisitely detailed exposed engine of the M.C. 205V Veltro; the judges eliminate it from consideration for having misaligned guns and one landing gear leg kicked significantly forward of the other. I sometimes think that if everyone just insisted on getting alignments of all components right, contests would be very much harder to judge. The same goes for cleaning up seams, though I think that's a lot harder than alignment.
It might be useful to consider the reasons for contests. I think at the bottom, for most of us, it's an opportunity to put our best work on the table and see how it stacks up against other folks' stuff. It gives us all a chance to see the very best the area can offer in whatever type of modeling the participants choose to present, and the subject choice and presentation decisions can often be more enjoyable to the spectator than whether the left and right wheels are in alignment.
However, there is also the competition element, and the judges (who are usually trying to be as fair as they can) are going to be ruthless about eliminating the easily-eliminated. I've lost count of the times I've had to agree that an absolutely gorgeous model does not make the cut because of one major flaw. I'm not sure the actual rules of judging matter that much, unless there is a decision to subordinate or ignore the basics of model construction. IPMS is an easy target under these circumstances, and the criticisms can be loud without making a lot of sense. C'mon guys, it's a bloody trophy! I'm pleased when I get one, and a little disappointed when I don't place, but I find I'm about as happy when someone simply compliments one of my models.
The point is, contests ought to be enjoyable. If you're not going to enjoy a contest, win, place, show or lose, you shouldn't enter. I know a lot of people who don't, and they still have a great time with the hobby.
Mark Schynert
Reply to
Mark Schynert
I'm gonna try to make it there this year. I enjoyed hanging out with you and the other Hampton Roads guys two years ago. I helped judge the dioramas and figures. Hope to see ya again Scott. :)
Bill
Reply to
Darkside24us
And Greg Heilers opened up and revealed to the world news:irpzc.540$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
(Snip)
Greg,
Exactly, and as has been said. In the end it is just a hobby (for most of us) and it isn't anything worth having a heart attack over. If the judge(s) pass over a particular model that somone has entered. Wouldn't the "mature" thing to do is to ASK why they passed on it? And IF possible correct the "defect" and re-enter it at a later date, or also if possible get another kit and build a new model "listening" to what the judge(s) had to say as you are building the new kit. But as you when all is said and done tomorrow is a new day.
Digital_Cowboy
- -- Live Long and Prosper . + . + . . .. .. . ______________________. . . . __ . \_______NCC_1701______|) .______.---'--'---.________ || || /-------.__________.-------/ /============/___/ '--' . \==\_____________|(- + . . + . . . . . + + .. . + . . + . . . . . . . + . .
Reply to
Digital_Cowboy
Or maybe he thought the judges were smart enough to know that Trek models are not space fact. In this case he was dead wrong.
I have not seen any of the models so I can not judge if in fact his models were better than the ones that won. Some modellers do think their models is the gretest thing made and will not accept the fact that other people may be better than him/her.
If in fact the judging was terrible then the contest runners better fix it or it will get e reputation of terrible judging and you will get fewer entries in the future. having a reputation of poor judging or home judging is a hard thing to shake.
Alex Styrofoam Guy
Digital_Cowboy wrote:
Reply to
Alexander Kung

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