To Infinity, and Beyond!

Rufus wrote: < SNIP >

BE CAREFUL!!

You could put your eye out!!

Love that movie. :-)

Tom

This thread is actually pretty funny. The point I was trying to make was, give us back the trillion dollars they propose wasting on the moon and all the other trillions the politicians waste and let US decide how to inject OUR money back into OUR economy. The government earns no money it just spends the hell out of OUR money.

In the new report I heard on TV, the jury was still out on weather the mortar rounds were actually leftovers, or of recent vintage. It was too early in the investigation/analysis to make a hard determination, but that the possibility did exist, they said.

I heard the story on the KTLA noon news. I did a Google search on "Iraqi Silkworms" and came across the following. I haven't read the articles, just did the search for you - I'm sure you could find more, and probably better - so I'll make no further claims or statements as to content. The first one references the Washington Post, I believe.

NPR had a very good piece on how and why Haliburton got into the position they are in not long ago. It was actually objective...in a nutshell, Haliburton saw a good opportunity some years ago to grab some DoD contracts and took it. They didn't just pop onto the scene - they made some opportune buisiness moves and bought out or trumped the competition. Haliburton would have had the biz in the middle east in any event because they positioned themselves to do so years earlier.

During his time there, Mr. Cheney made a specific and direct point of removing himself from all dealings concerning DoD contracting...which from what the NPR report had to say made him VERY few friends at Haliburton.

Haliburton is simply a huge DoD contractor no different from Boeing (or the former McDonnell Douglas), Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Skillcraft, etc. They just provide services vice hardware. Someone is always going to make the money - why get hung up on who?

Apparently missed by everyone in their reaction to this wondrous new vision was the part of the proposal that said "Space Station Freedom" was to be abandoned, justified as transferring funds to the new project. They are essentially trying to dodge the admission that the last technical fancy toilet was a waste and are hoping to continue the waste on the new project. The moon shot was just a political circus stunt and the Mars mission is no better. I think it was the Emperor Nero who, when one of his more outrageous stunts was questioned by one of his courtiers replied; "The people actually don't care what I do as long as I give them bread and circuses". We've got welfare and the Mars mission.

Bill Shuey

not one cent has been wasted on space research. getting off this tiny mudball will really get the human race going. the earth is still very much a pre scientific planet.

-- Dennis Loep The Glueing Dutchman

OK, don't get me wrong, but please enlighten me.. I don't mind people going to the Moon, not even Mars. But WHY??

What will change in our lives (or this little mudball for what that's worth) when we find out that there was life on Mars. What can and will we do whith that knowledge? Will our world start spinning in the other direction? Will we modellers all start growing these much needed 12 fingers? Or a third arm?

I don't believe that the afore mentioned spin-offs will generate more money/convenience/luxury/technical knowledge to make it all profitable. It doesn't matter if our cars run faster/quieter/more economical/ after we come home from Mars with the technology learned from it

If it is about the earth getting too crowded, and we HAVE to go to live on other planets, isn't it so that we haven't explored the half of our own little mud ball yet (lets say under water). If we can construct habitats on other planets, where the environments are very possibly very hostile, are we then not able to construct habitats on the bottom of our own seas? There would be space enough, that would be a bit cheaper, easier to get at, easier (and quicker to get from when shit happens) and if everything goes wrong people at least die on their own little blue planet.

My 2 ct

-- Dennis Loep The Glueing Dutchman

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'" Isaac Asimov

But you've gotten plenty of "returns" on the money you invested in the Government over the years as taxes.

"The world would be a much simpler place if every one could pick and choose their obligations, but we can't and we shouldn't." Major Charles W. Whittlesey

That was in the 80s, when BTW, Saddam was our ally. Are you suggesting we went to war because of something that happened 16 years ago during another war? Britain used poison gas in WWI. Even though they were our ally in that war, maybe we should go to war against them? BTW, the Silkworm missile articles clearly stated the discovered missiles had a 93 mile range (at the treaty limit) and had high explosive warheads. ALL other projects were paper projects per the articles. Kim M

To Bankruptcy, and beyond- Bush Lightyear

Apparently, the Hubble Telescope is being abandoned also, or at least no more Shuttle missions to it. The ONE bit of real deep space science going on right now, and we're walking away from it for this circus. Is the James Webb orbiting scope up and running yet? Kim M

To Bankruptcy, and Beyond- Bush Lightyear

Anybody else following the yellowcake on the shipload of scrap metal story? Happened in December, but the press hasn't mentioned it until this week that I know of.

Tom

Now THERE'S some sanity...

Actually, one day FAR in the future when we're ALL long dead and our Sun begins to expand in radius, I would expect it will become nessecary for the human race to more to a further distance from the Sun if the human race is to survive another number of billion years. As they say, every journey begins with a first step, and we are only starting to pick up our feet to take that first step. Point is that teh work will NEED to be done...someday. I'm all for reasearch.

On a related topic - I was saddened to hear the other night that NASA has decided to let Hubble die...:(

Didn't Germany go to war over something that happened years ago, in another war? Everyone chooses their battles, don't they?

And haven't you ever gotten into a dissagreement with a friend? Some you mend, some you don't, right?

And just because someone hasn't broken the law outright, do you think they should be left alone until they do? I could introduce you to to a signficant number of battered women I know whom would dissagree with you, and have paid the price for such an approach to the law.

And the report I heard on the tele was proabably referencing a other batch of Silkworms; it specifically mentioned chemical warheads - recall I said I didn't read what I found; only started a search.

Not until 2011 according to our local paper. This part's disgusting.

Bill Banaszak, MFE

FWIW That wasn't NASA's decision, Shrub and his so called advisors made that decision in order to release funds for their pie in the sky (or should I say space) Mars mission. Makes real sense, the one item on NASA's plate that is doing some real science and they dump it for another scientific circus stunt.

Bill Shuey

That doesn't make any sense, from some of the things I've heard. I heard on NPR last night that is a NASA decision based on a risk assesment in getting the Shuttles flying again. The basis being that manned flight will now require a "safe haven" for emergency operations, and Hubble is not in an orbit which is opportune to one - i.e.; the ISS.

I attended recent a safety stand down briefing from one of the Admirals whom was part of the incident investigation board involved in the Columbia loss. His briefing was eye opening, to say the least (especially the parts about just how non-manueverable the Shuttles actually are while on orbit) - I came away with yet another insight into the risks involved even over and above the astronaut recruiting seminar I attended a few years ago...I'm amazed we haven't lost more of them to date. The move to phase the Shuttles out and replace them is long overdue. On the way there are going to have to be some sacrifices. All in all, I think the changes will be for the better and make NASA stronger as a research and exploration organization. It's shame that scientific sarifices must be made, but they must be made.

Bottom line was that there are some obvious, endemic, not unusual cultural issues at NASA which require addressing in order to continue manned spaceflight within that organization safely. The entire operation is getting a facelift, and if I had to hazard a guess you'll be seeing an ever increasing set of changes in NASA manned flight programs based on such risk assesments. The President will have little, if nothing to do with such changes. DoD might, as from what was briefed this was the first time a full-blown mishap board in accord with military guidelines and protocalls has been convened for a NASA flight mishap. I imagine that more of those practices - particularly in the arenas of risk management - will be adopted at NASA as time passes.

And you're surprised? This is a regime that's putting creationist tracts out for sale at the Grand Canyon bookstore. To them, science is something that led to evoloution and interracial dating. Kim M