Re: Apple to use Intel CPUs?

John Scheldroup wrote:


Not being a programmer (mostly assembler on PICs) I didn't dig too deep on the site. It seems to me that this is still fundamentally building a tiny OS kernel to integrate with the Java portion.
Pete C.

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--
Why do true believers call themselves Neocons ? Neofascists, was taken.

"Pete C." < snipped-for-privacy@snet.net> wrote in message
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Abstract thinking, as you term it, has a negative edge... However, I would agree that I am not normally going to pop-up the terminal and start typing unix commands. Otherwise, there is no fundamental or conceptual difference in the hierarchical file organization on windows, linux, or OSX. All of them try to make associations to real world structures. That is certainly an abstraction.

In fact, IEEE 1394 is an apple developed technology that they opened-up. And being an early adopter set the market trends and made life easier for users. By having Firewire, bluetooth, WiFi and other technologies standard, it just makes for a simpler user experience – and longer lived hardware. Of the 3 mac and (just re-counted) 4 PCs I have, none of the PCs had Firewire, 1 had gigabit ethernet. Which are being useful today? * macs and 1 PC. Granted, that is in part because i do not want to wast e the time to upgrade all the machines to working state again. Leave a PC off for 2 months, and there are about a half days worth of update to make.

Well, you have the direct experience. However, knocking pro-sumer fails to see the trend. Apple has made real time video editing inexpensive (relative to custom kit). You can, and people are, making product quality work on Mac. I see I will not convince you, but I can give you some things to watch for entertainment:
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/finalcutpro/customerstory.html http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/soundtrackpro/customertestimonial.html

Ah yes... why is it that ISPs provide this stuff when all you need to do is go to the control panel and enter some numbers into the network settings. Yes, on a PC this helps a lot, but it is easier when ISPs simply provide the info for the user to enter on a mac.

I do not think we are talking about the same thing. give me a link for this auto-rise thing and I will look. I suspect it is not the same and not as elegantly integrated into the workflow. It is not the same as multidisplay - it can instantly shrink and show all windows - so if I have 40 documents open across 10 applications, I can show all instantly, move the mouse over it, the name pops up, click and I am there. Sounds slow, but it is much faster than picking tabs, or tabing though programs to find what you want. Look at the animation on apples site.

BUY acrobat. That is the point. Plus, acrobat does not work perfectly form all programs. Since the underlying window and page descriptions are based on PDF technology, it just works. everywhere. Nothing to add.

No, because as I said, RMB is the same as Control+LMB. Most mac users know that. However, I do expect that apple will change their dogma on this one since I also agree that a multi-button mouse is more productive.

Drivers are not the problem. In fact, it is very rare that one has to instal anything on a mac when installing new hardware or printers.
What I have never figured out on a PC is how you can have multiple network setting and quickly switch between them. On a mac, you simply create a location, and make your settings. So for example, I have Office, Home, Airport, Girlfriends house... simply select one from the apple menu and away I go. All network settings change instantly and reliably.

In my case I user fixed IPs in my studio, but at home I have WiFi and use DHCP. And yes, I have hardware with firewalls. In Switzerland Broadband routers a weee bit more expensive than that....

Well, it is actually a bit of a non-issue now with OSX since you can turn on show extensions. I guess I do not really mind them either, and have helped explain certain issues to new users.
Regarding security, when you download a file, and it is a program, OSX asks if you really want it. Anytime you open a new document that was not created by you, it ask if you want to open it for the first time in application XXX. There is a lot of layers a hacker has to get through. And I am sure they will try. However, it is ironic, that many of the problems people had in OS 9 and even in OSX tend to be due to use of virus protection software! If you friends have Norton utilities, get rid of it ASAP. That is the WORST.

I think it is more like do you want the optional airbag, and perhaps the steering wheel. But before you notice that you thought it looked like a fully equipped car from the outside.

OK, we disagree on the accounting and what is important.

Well, I am not an expert on these and I can not argue the details. My point being that apple is having success with high end super computer clusters. along with their other server and raid products. In part because of technical benefits – everything from speed, ease of use, and in these cases especially cost. (I was surprised to see how much the reduced cooling cost makes a difference to these systems). http://www.apple.com/science/profiles/vatech2/ (you may have seen this one before) http://www.apple.com/xserve / http://www.apple.com/xserve/raid /
Anyway, time to go home here! Cheers Daniel
I will get of my high horse now.... there is some work to do too... :-)
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daniel wrote:

Not intending to put a negative edge on it, just pointing out a difference I have observed many many times. I'm also not referring to the way that the underlying file system operates, but rather the way the user organizes their desktop where I have seen a clear differentiation between the two user types regardless of the OS they are on. Presumably the underlying file systems on all the OSs are going to be similar since programmers are predominantly of the logical / technical type.

IEEE 1394 also did not work very well on either platform for the first few incarnations.
Incorporating technologies that a great many end users may never use also drives up the cost. Should all cars come standard with child seats even though a substantial percentage of users will never use them?
How does not having gigabit Ethernet make a PC unusable? I work for a large company with an enormous network infrastructure, and I can tell you that gigabit Ethernet is only in use for links between switches within a building. I have yet to see any penetration of gigabit Ethernet to the desktop level, and not much to the server level either. On the server side multiple 100mb likes seem to be preferred.
What percentage of users actually have a use for Firewire anyway? From what I've seen the percentage is pretty small. Even my friends on both PC and MAC do not use it, and this includes folks who do a lot of graphics and video work. I'd venture a guess that of all the Firewire ports out there, less than 10% are actually ever used.
The only folks using Firewire either have a fairly expensive pro-sumer camcorder, or they like to hook up external hard drives and use Firewire 'cause it's there vs. PC people who use USB2 for that.
Updates to a Windows system after a 2 month span would only take half a day if you are both limited to dialup and choose to install all available updates. The PC is by no means unusable without those updates, and the ones that could be critical (security) are all pretty small. The "fat" updates are the ones to Internet Explorer or Windows Media Player that are far from critical.

Apple's promotion of video editing on their systems has had two main results, one positive and one negative.
On the positive side it has provided more opportunities for people to experiment with video and this helps lead those who have some talent down the video career path.
On the negative side it has lead to a lot of people who have no talent for video work to think they do and start small businesses which has hurt the true professionals in the lower end of the field both by drawing business away from the pros, and also by turning some potential customers off after they have a bad experience with one of these "hacks".
I've seen the results of this in some of my freelance audio / video work. Power point has had similar results.
I've seen many instances where people who do not have the talent or expertise have produced video or Power point presentations for a large corporate meeting. They show up with big egos and then when their video doesn't play properly from their MAC/PC or the text that looked great on their desktop monitor is unreadable on the big $20k projector they resort to trying to pass the blame to the A/V tech crew.
I saw one particularly egregious case where someone had a presentation on their Powerbook (or whatever MAC variant) that we piped to the video projector and the PA system.
The presentation slides displayed just fine, the audio played just fine, but the video clips that they had embedded in their slides did not show (black window). They blamed this on the video projector of course, but anyone with half a clue knew this was pure BS since the entire rest of the screen was displaying just fine, and of course the video also was not visible on their MAC.
There are indeed some people who are producing quality video work on MACs, but these are the same people who can produce quality video work on PCs.
Those people understand the medium, the capabilities and limitations of the system they are using and know how to work within those capabilities. Above all else they understand that you can not reliably playback a finished project directly from the computer unless it has dedicated video hardware.
You can import video over Firewire from a suitably equipped camcorder (or Digital VCR). You can edit that video on the computer, whether it is a MAC or PC. You can output the finished video back via Firewire to the camcorder (or Digital VCR). You can not directly output video reliably from the computer without dedicated hardware.
The Firewire interface provides the buffering of the data stream from the timing glitches that will be present from the computer. Because the Firewire interface can move data faster than the real-time video stream requirements it is able to mask those glitches in the same way a CD player is able to mask read errors when the player experiences a shock and has to reposition the laser optics.

Rule #1 - *NEVER NEVER NEVER* install *ANY* ISP provided software on *ANY* system, regardless of OS.
In either case for cable or DSL you should be using an inexpensive firewall router both for security and to provide isolation from ISP nonsense.
For dialup you only have a couple hardware firewall router options (Netgear FVS328 is one) and they are a bit more expensive though still under $200. Barring the hardware router for dialup, you should still be using the OS's native dialup networking utilities and not any ISP provided junk.
Most ISPs support folks are unable to provide the proper information at all as of late. You can generally find the info for DNS, POP3, SMTP and NEWS servers if you go to their support web sites though.
I more disturbing issue with ISPs of late is that you have to use their software to do the initial account registration and setup on the ISP end. Their support folks are unable to do these tasks anymore.
What this meant recently is that when my friend with the MAC moved to a new apartment in a new area and needed to start a cable modem service I ended up putting a fresh Windows install on a spare PC, bringing it over to do the ISP registration and then just formatting it after the registration was complete. There was no issue using the firewall router with the ISP, and in fact the registration was done through the router, but you had to use their software to do the registration.
The cable ISP where I live some 60 miles away did not have this problem. On their system if you put up a new MAC address, be it a router or PC their system just redirects you to a secure registration web site and requires no special software.
This cable ISP even lets you register multiple MAC addresses if you want. They understand the concept that you are paying for the connection pipe, not the PC and as long as you aren't constantly maxing out the bandwidth they have no reason to care what you have connected.

Well, showing all instantly sounds rather like what the Windows task bar does, and it can be set to auto hide until you move the mouse cursor to the very edge of the screen on whatever side you have chosen to place the task bar.
With the task bar in auto-hide mode it doesn't take up any desktop space. When you need to find that buried window you just move to the edge of the screen, the task bar pops up and you select the window you need from the icons on the task bar. Alt-tab does a very similar thing by popping up a window for you to select from the active windows.
The auto-rise thing originates from the Unix world where the window that you position the mouse cursor over gets focus without having to click on it. You just roll over to the visible edge of the window and it pops to the front. This feature is available when using eXcursion as well as available in separate utilities. I don't know any of the separate ones offhand since it is not a feature I use.

I'd buy it if I had a use for it, I don't so I don't. If MS was allowed to bundle it into Windows I wouldn't need to buy it, but I still wouldn't use it and I would have ended up paying a license fee for something I didn't want.

Well perhaps they will at some point, but multi button mice predated the MAC and it's been quite a while.

The multiple network setting thing is very much there in the PC world for WiFi but it's part of the WiFi cards utilities, not Windows itself. It never really materialized for hardwired networks since DHCP pretty well took care of that.

If you have one PC that is always on in the studio, you can run the MS DHCP service on it. Even when running DHCP in the studio you can still have fixed IP addresses by registering the machines MAC address on the DHCP server and assigning it an IP.
I use DHCP on all my machines, even the fixed hardwired servers and assign the IPs via the DHCP server. It makes it easier to keep track of what IPs are in use, and I still have a pool available for anyone visiting who doesn't have a fixed assignment.
You can't just order a Netgear or Linksys router from Amazon or someone? Get hit with import taxes or something? Ick.

It's good if they give you the choice.

Yes, in the default configuration most antivirus software is problematic. I run mine strictly on demand and don't have problems. Oddly enough I also never seem to get any viruses anyway. My web server gets attacked on a daily basis, but between the hardware firewall and an additional software firewall it has remained safe so far.
No matter how many layers of "Are you really sure you want to do this" you have, ultimately it is the naieve user who will click on that banner telling them they just won something. That issue is there regardless of OS unfortunately.
I particularly like the little popup with the warning that my computer's clock may be wrong, especially since I run the NIST time client on all my machines. It may be off a couple seconds since I use a 12 hr update interval, but it 'aint off by much.

Actually I don't want the airbag, but that's another group and thread.
I don't know that that is really a good comparison.
Why should I pay extra for a DVD burner if I'm not going to use it? What if I have more than one machine, why would I want a DVD burner on each one? At some point the cost of the DVD burner is low enough that it won't matter, much like CD-ROM is now, but until then why should I pay the extra $50-100?
How about the hard drive? Do I really want or need the 300GB drive if I'm just getting a laptop that I'll put on the little writing desk by the kitchen and use to check email and lookup recipes?
How about RAM? If I don't do gaming, graphics or CAD do I really need 1GB? Isn't 256MB just fine?
Granted these are fairly small amounts individually, but if all you need is email, web surfing and a word processor, those savings on what you don't need can easily be hundreds of dollars.

If you are not in the US and the broadband routers are a lot more expensive, then perhaps the ratios between Apple and Dell, HP, etc. are also different. When I wander through my local CompUSA or Fry's I do see a marked difference in the price for what you get.

The power and cooling costs of all of these newer high performance systems is significant.
I've done system replacement upgrades where I've tripled performance, halved power consumption and BTU output and quartered floor space, while at the same time reducing operational costs from lease and maintenance contracts by thousands of dollars a year.
System uptime reliability doesn't change much since these systems had multiple levels of redundancy and fault tolerance both before and after the upgrades.
When you work in large data center environments you realize the amount of power distribution and air conditioning that is required, particularly when you are a hardware type and have an in depth knowledge of those systems.
UPS systems feeding 600 amp three phase buss bars to multiple PDUs are pretty damned impressive as are 4MW banks of diesel generators with 40,000 gallon fuel tanks, and that is at one of the smaller sites.
The big stuff is a lot of fun to play with.
Pete C.

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If I work on a transfer large files with my server or other client on the network, I am very happy to have gigabit networking. In this case faster is better. Saying it is OK to work with 100mb is like me saying why would anyone need a HD over 10MB which is what my first powerbook 100 had 12 or so years ago. Capacity will be used if it is there. Who thought we would want to download movies realtime over the internet... but that is what people want - 56k does not cut it anymore. So building the new advanced tech into the hardware adds useful life to the hardware. as I said before, my old macs are more relevant and useful today than my equally old PCs.

Well, if I look around my studio, and those of adjacent companies, we all have iPods (firewire, but USB works too), Firewire scanners (speed for large images) firewire webcams, and of course external hard drives. Remember USB 2 is a fairly recent thing, and is competitive with firewire 400, not the newer 800. USB1 is unusable for external HD and scanners if you need something that is a decent speed or quality. And also USB1 is a painful process for iPod as well - too slow!
Also, my sony camcorder is abut 400-500USD. Not exactly pro-sumer by any stretch.

Well, this was exactly the argument when the original mac came out in 1984, and everyone thought that graphic design would go to hell because everyone would try and put every font on the documents and make it look like trash. Well, not we know that the designers work for apple, and the hacks work for MS ;-)) Kidding!!!!
But seriously, I think anyone can use a hammer. Some have the skill and talent, and some don't. It just makes the market broader. In the end, I think this is a good thing.

Lack of preparation and training is a common illness.

Right.
Huh? What do you mean? streaming it to a projector?

Again, what do you mean? to what are you talking about outputting to?

Are you talking about dropped frames? What kind of glitch in an all digital process do you mean?

It is not the same at all. Really. Please have a look at this video example (direct link) http://www.apple.com/macosx/theater/expose.html
Note that where they use F keys, you can also set each corner of your display to be a custom "hot" spot that you can simply mouse to and it triggers the action.

Again, ease of use. How do you handle a PC laptop when travelling. Again, like my situation where I have about 10 different network settings for various locations, each switching from fixed IP, different internet providers, DHCP... even some that simply turn off all network devices to save power when traveling. At the moment, I think this does not exist on the PC. Or if it does, it is another 3rd party solution that may or may not work reliably.

I agree, SHCP would be easier now in my new studio location. Earlier I was in another shared environment, and my network wis linked to another company's network simply to access their Canon digital copier. It was necessary to ensure that our networks had some degree of security. Now it is not necessary, and next upgrade I will probably change it.

In Switzerland the providers require you only use "approved" kit, and it just happens that approved kit costs a lot more.

And the cost goes down when it is standard in every computer. Also remember it is easer for the manufacturer to manage support if they know that the customer has a defined set of features. I know that my hatred of floppy drives made me insist on not having them them on my PC (that was hard to achieve!). I remember once need to call support, and they told me to use the floppy drive. I laughed.
Another example of better tech is good to have - OSX 10.4, the latest version is distributed on DVD. What are you going to do if all you have is a CD drive? Of course, this has been a problem for some users with systems older than 3 years (and you can order it on CD if necessary). I do not want to buy the bare minimim that I need - I generally will buy what will grow with me, without me being nickeled and dimed to death later.

True, I thought my 10GB hard drive was enough. Now every time I upload pictures from my 7.2mp camera, I ad about 1.2 - 2 gigabytes per image. Many people never think of these things... and it does add up. I have friends who have kids. this instant they say "oh, I'll get a video camera and edit on my computer" I always ask what kit they have... if it is a mac, they usually are all set. If it is a PC, they will have to upgrade hardware and software to achieve the same thing.

True. And that is the default (actually 512 is now) in most macs.

I do not say there should not be options. But if you look across the entire apple product line, there is nothing that you can do on the high end G5, that you cannot do (more slowly) on the low end iBook, or eMac. The OS, and hardware components are consistant. That is the beauty. And web surfing these days is turning into a intense graphics and video oriented experience... so low spec is not so ideal.

I am from the US, but lived in Europe for 13 years. I also always check online US prices.

When you have the budget - go to town!!! :-)
Daniel
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Greuzi Daniel,
I think your math is off a bit... Unless you're using some unheard of color depth. <G>
7.2 megapixels, in TIFF (uncompressed) format at a color depth of 24 bits/pixel (3 bytes/pixel) would be 7.2megs x 3 or around 21.6 megs per image... Even at 32 bits/pixel it would only be around 29 megs/image. Or are you talking about video? -- Ciao,
--Mitch
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ooops :-)
That is why I was just went for a little vacation for a few days in italy.... my mind was going soft!
gruss
Daniel
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daniel wrote:

So you have your machines connected to a gigabit Ethernet switch? How big are the files you regularly move? If they aren't over about 100MB then the difference in time to transfer is pretty negligible.
Also note that 10Mb Ethernet is quite capable of handling streaming of a DVD between systems. I tried this once by mapping a DVD drive on one system from another and playing the DVD remote. It did max out the 10Mb connection, but the DVD played with no glitches. So on a 100Mb connection you could stream several without issues.
As far as the old MAC being more useful than the old PC, that is a marginal assertion at best since dropping in a gigabit card is all that is required. This is $50 and 10 minutes of work.

USB2 is newer and so is 800 Firewire, both technologies have progressed. USB1 was designed for keyboards and mice mostly and then had to grow with it's popularity. Firewire was designed for video use so it started out faster. Firewire has had to grow as it morphed from a video buss to a general purpose buss. Both have been taken in a direction they were not originally intended for.

Well it wasn't that long ago that it was only the VX1000's and GL1's with Firewire. The last time I looked at camcorders I saw quite a few with USB2 and not Firewire.

Well, some of that is indeed true. I see an awful lot of "Fontitis" out there.
The graphic designers do indeed work for Apple as evidenced by all the snazzy packaging they use to try to lure buyers. Too bad the hardware designers all work for Dell, HP, Sun, IBM... :)

As I said, it has also helped people who do have talent get into the video world.

Yes indeed and it's aggravated by products and marketing that convince people that it's really easy and they can do it themselves.
I've suggested to a friend who is in the A/V services business that he should make up a little booklet with covering the fundamentals of doing Power point and similar for the big screen that he can distribute as a promo / advertising piece. Just the simple stuff like minimum font size, color combinations / contrast and the like that cause the bulk of the problems.

Exactly. I have yet to see a computer, PC or MAC successfully play a video directly to a projector / vcr / tv without dedicated video hardware. Every single example I have seen has been full of glitches.

In order to have a useable product, you have to send the finished video back out via Firewire to tape for playback on a dedicated VCR, or to DVD for playback on a dedicated DVD player.
In both cases you are writing the digital data to a medium that is able to absorb timing glitches from the computer when the output is done and then perform the playback of the data with clean consistent timing.

Dropped frames, stutters, pixel dropouts, audio glitches, etc. All caused by timing irregularities in the computer. These errors are readily seen when attempting to play the video to the computers regular display. The same timing glitches are masked / corrected when you output Via Firewire or burn a DVD which is then played by a dedicated machine that does not exhibit these timing errors. It's a similar effect to using a time base corrector with an analog VCR.

Didn't watch the video because it requires Quicktime w/ Spam. Read the accompanying text, looked at the pics and did not see anything described that provided a capability not available in Windows. They approach things a bit differently, but the basic idea is rapid access to windows that may be buried and Windows provides several mechanisms for just as rapid access.

No, all those capabilities most certainly do exist on the PC. I am more or less perpetually on call for work and always have my laptop with me.
Switching between settings for my regular locations is basically non existent since I use a hardwired connection and DHCP for all of them. I simply plug into the net and that's the end of it as far as network settings go. VPN connection and authentication for some locations is a separate thing as it would be on any platform.
For locations where there is not a hardwired connection available I simply pop a WiFi card into the PC card slot and either select a profile I have previously setup if it's a location I've been at before, or more often it's a new location so it takes a moment to create the new profile.
If I'm really in the middle of nowhere and all I can get is a phone line then I popup a dialer utility that has a phone book of possible access points across the country. I enter the local area code and prefix and it presents me with the closest points to choose from. This is of course a third party thing, but if I had regular dialup locations I used I could also save those dialup profiles using the regular Windows dialup networking utility.
One time I ended op dialed in from a town maintenance garage next to a baseball field at 11:30pm after working a live video shoot for a baseball game. Another time I was driving cross country and was paged while on the highway at 2am. I got off the next exit, checked into the first hotel I found and was online via WiFi in short order.

Well, you can setup a DHCP server to only assign IPs to machines in it's MAC address table. Then only known machines would get IPs.

Ick. In the US the providers typically only provide tech support for their approved kit, but have no restrictions on using your own. Most also have white papers on their site that provide some support for other configurations.
From what I hear you guys do have one big advantage over the US, at least for the Home Shop Machinist types. From what I hear you have residential three phase power which is something many people would love to have here. We have to use phase converters or inverter drives for our home three phase stuff.

Well, I suppose that doesn't apply to me as the only time I have ever called support for a PC issue was when the hard drive on my personal laptop (Compaq) died 2 years and 8 months into the three year warrantee. When I gave them my name their system kept trying to route me to their "Gold Support" group since I'm on the contact list for gold support at work. I ended up getting an upgrade since they didn't have any more 12GB drives and they sent me an 18GB instead.

Well, the standard CD-ROM on PCs has been replaced by a standard DVD-ROM for a while now as many things including product distributions and reference materials have outgrown single CDs and are becoming available on DVD-ROM as well. You still have the option of not paying for a DVD burner for systems where you have no expectation of never needing it.
I have some six PCs at home and I only need a DVD burner on one since they are all networked. I will never have a need to burn a DVD directly on my electronics bench PC or my CNC router control PC. I don't even have a need for DVD-ROM on them as I can readily read what I might need over the network from another machine.

1.2 - 2 GB? I think you got that wrong, a raw 7.2mp image would be somewhere around 21 MB and much less with lossless compression. I still use a 3.1 MP camera that produces what appear to be lossless JPGs and the range up to about 1.5 MB for a complex image.
Additionally I may download the images from the camera card on a particular PC, but the images are saved to a separate server PC that has a large hard drive and is backed up regularly. Again use of networking means there is no need to spend extra money to duplicate things on each individual computer.

My point is that more and more people have multiple computer households and home networking. This greatly reduced the need to have items like large drives, CD/DVD burners, scanners and even printers duplicated on every machine.
The parents have their computers in the home office, the kids each have their own computers, there are central color inkjet and laser printers on the network, perhaps a utility PC in the den has a flatbed scanner, and everyone can access whatever resources they need over the network. They don't even have to use the same OS, Windows, OS-X and Linux can all coexist peacefully and share resources. Wouldn't it be nice if all religions could do the same?

That web surfing only requires a fast 'net connection and a reasonably fast CPU. You can still store the illegal MP3s and videos you download directly to your central file server and burn your CDs and DVDs from a different workstation as well.
I store my CAD and CNC G-code files on my central server machine which is always on. If I'm going to do significant CAD work I will boot the dual display workstation to work from. It I'm doing a quick tweak I usually fire up the CAD software on the laptop that I use as my general machine for email and surfing. When I'm going to cut something on the CNC router in the detached shop I just grab the G-code file from the server in the house.
The key to all of this is to fully utilize the capabilities of networking. Not very long ago people didn't have home networks and had to duplicate resources on every computer. In those days the Apple model of everything on every machine had some relevance. Now that multiple computers and home networking are becoming common, that model is becoming obsolete. The concept of thin internet appliances and service provider resources had morphed into shared resources on the home network.

I don't have the big budget, I just grab the older Alphastations and Sparcstations that are headed for the dumpster. Not that I wouldn't like to heat my house with the Alphaserver GS160 and fibrechannel EVA storage array.
Pete C.

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Maybe this will lead to you one chip to rule them all:
http://yahoo.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_23/b3936081_mz018.htm
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daniel wrote:

I'm not sure that's anything dramatically new. The FPGAs also referenced in the article have been around for years and were preceded by the simpler PALs. The reconfigurable aspect has also been around for a while in various forms. The Alphaservers have been using matrix switched backplanes for a while to massively boost I/O bandwidth, particularly in multi CPU configurations. The Latest Marvel series took the switching even further to interprocessor communications.
Pete C.
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Or do you mean autistic?
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YouGoFirst wrote:

Um, no, not going there.
Suffice it to say that I've seen many very good artistic folks computers and many technical folks computers. One thing that I see consistently between the two is the way that their computer desktops are organized.
The artistic types typically have their icons in little clusters that have no discernible (at least to me) organization, where the technical folks have their icons arranged in a rigid grid and grouped according to either function or frequency of use. It really is a different though process behind it.
Pete C.
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Cliff wrote:

That is fundamentally my point, there are two quite different though processes out there, rather a left brain / right brain thing. One UI works better for one type and the other UI works better for the other type. Neither is "better", just different.
Pre OS-X, Windows *was* better from a technical standpoint regarding the underlying kernel. Post OS-X there is not a lot of difference between them technically, the primary difference is the UI.
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Cliff wrote:

I could, but I don't care to spend the time. My observations of numerous MAC and Windows users has sufficiently solidified this observation for me.
Artistic type tend to prefer the MAC UI and technical types tend to prefer the Windows UI. These two types show distinctly different methods to the organization of the icons on their desktops.
My observations have also shown that these two thought / organizational processes carry across the OS used. Artistic types exhibit the same organizational tendencies whether they are on a MAC or Windows, the same is seen with technical types.
Pete C.

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Cliff wrote:

Have conclusions based on extensive observations.

Quite material, as the observations were at different places and different times, all unrelated and the behavior observed was consistent.

The marketing plays to the differentiation, it does not create it.

Different how? The basic functionality of the Windows and OS-X desktops are very similar. The use of desktop icons is virtually the same between the UIs. The two types of users arrangement of those icons is consistently different and is consistent with user type, even across platforms.

Not in this case, as I have observed this differentiation of user type even in the same environment.
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Cliff wrote:

Nope, only the religious loonies thought that, and I think even they are over it now. They do of course think that evolution is still a theory though, perhaps another 100 years for them to get over that as well.

Real world observations of test subjects is about as material as it gets.

Huh?
What reasoning? All I've seen from you is assertions that the dominant left brain / right brain differentiation does not exist, without a single reference to back it (since none exist).

Huh? Same OS, same UI, same applications and two different user types who exhibit the same differentiation in the way they organize their desktops and workflow.
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Cliff wrote:

You may think so, but there is plenty of research behind it, and Apple though enough of it to use it in their "Think Different" advertising.
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Cliff wrote:

That is indeed what Apple tried to do, however it also stifled innovation and independent development.
Microsoft approached the same issues in a much better way (although a bit later than they should have) by introducing their Windows certification process and consistent install/uninstall utilities.
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Cliff wrote:

I am indeed comparing two different time frames because they are when the respective companies dealt with the same issue. I'm comparing the two companies approaches to trying to insure product compatibility and stability, not comparing the products themselves.
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Cliff wrote:

Indeed, and they had done it in a detrimental way.

Pre-NT is where a large portion of the issues were. Post-NT and moving into W2K and XP much of that had been resolved.
I've had very few issues with applications conflicting with each other or with hardware. The only real headaches with hardware came on a video editing system using hardware CODECs and that was just a bit of a struggle to sort out the interrupts required for the video CODEC card, Audio CODEC card, several SCSI controllers and the regular system graphics card. Once the IRQs were appropriately distributed everything worked just fine. That was also 10 years ago.
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