Best H0 system for newcomer?

Hi again NG,

I had earlier asked about Marklin, and based on the responses, I am leaning towards finding a different brand to start with. I had a Marklin H0 set while growing up in Scandinavia, but I have limited knowledge of model trains, especially US manufacturers and systems. I am looking for advice on which manufacturer and brand to purchase a system from, ranging from their quality and reputation, through price and value, to selection size.

Thanks! TAB

In general you don't buy a set. While it's possible in some cases it's usually not recommended. You need to ask yourself some basic questions. First is how am I going to use this; Set it up, run, and then put it in boxes, or will you have a permanent setup (like a 4x8 sheet of plywood or similar) someplace. Next is do I want to build cars or just buy everything RTR or a little of both.

Unlike Europe, there is no "system" in the US. When I was a kid in Germany many decades ago, I had a Fleischmann "system" My friends had either Trix or Maerklin. We could not run our trains on each other's layouts due to the complete incompatibility. Here in the US we have the NMRA which set standards a long time ago so that everything works with (just about) everything else. Right now I model N-scale. My track is Atlas code55, my switch machines are Tortoises, my powerpacks are MRC, my locomotives are a collection of just about everything out there: Atlas, Bachmann, ModelPower, Kato, Life Like,Model Die Casting, ConCor, Rivarossi, even a few old Minitrix..Same with rolling stock: I like it, I buy it. Doesn't matter who made it I "KNOW" it will work together. The only "system" I employ is that all my couplers are Micro Trains.The old rapido (fondly known as the "Crapido" coupler used to be the de-facto standard in N scale, but is slowly but surely being replaced by the Micro train clones or compatibles.. So just go out there, pick up what you like, (although I would avoid Bachmann's Standard line; their Spectrum is ok) and be assured it WILL work together. All manufactures make quality products, just remember that some also make beginner's Train Sets; so Cheap Price = Cheap Quality.

Franz T.

If you have in mind to build a European layout, I'd recommend Roco, Bachmann Liliput, or Heljan to start. You can add Marklin-made Trix locos and rolling stock later on. You'll have decide which coupler to use, though, as no two manufacturers use the same one.

If you have in mind to build a US layout, well, there are no "systems" in the N. American model railroad market. There are brands. You mix and match according to your tastes. If you're thinking in terms of train sets, most of the stuff offered around Christmas time isn't worth the money.

So assuming you want to model some US and/or Canadian railroads, here are my comments. I hope you find them useful.

First, I strongly suggest that you acquire a Walthers catalog. Buy a few recent model railroad magazines, too. That will give you an idea of what's out there. There is literally too much to give you the kind of advice you want.

Secondly, which railroad(s) do you want to model? What time frame or era? Deciding this will help narrow down the catalog and on-line searches. You can model any era from about 1880 to the present, although you'll have to adapt and scratchbuild a lot for a layout set more than about 50 years ago.

Thirdly, I take it you may want plug'n'play. I don't know of any such "system" (not even Marklin's.) The best you can do is connect the track sections, hook up the controller, and go. But to build a layout takes a good deal more than that. But that's a large part of the fun. :-)

Given those preliminary remarks, here's my list of good quality brands, based entirely on my own experience.

A) Train sets: Lifelike Proto (very good); Walthers, IHC, and Bachmann (good) make the only ones worth considering. NB that Lifelike also makes cheap and 'orrible trainsets. Avoid them.

A) Locomotives: Best: Kato, Atlas, LifeLike Proto2000/1000 (less detail), Athearn Genesis diesels. Very good: BLI, Bachmann Spectrum, current IHC, Walthers Trainline, Atlas Trainman, Athearn Genesis steam. Good: some Model Power, older IHC, Roundhouse/MDC, some Bachmann. Poor: most Model Power, most Bachmann, non-Proto LifeLike.

B) Rolling stock: same as above. Other good brands are Accurail and Bowser. When it comes to kits, too many to mention. They range from relatively simple plastic kits through quite complex plastic kits to kits requiring a fairly high level of craft skills (cutting, drilling, shaping, soldering, gluing, painting, etc.)

C) Track: All brands of plain track consisting of rail mounted on a plastic tie strip are 100% compatible with track using the same rail height (or "code). There is no significant difference in quality, although code 83 track tends to look a lot better, and the turnouts are closer to conformance with NMRA standards.

The brands consisting of rail mounted on a molded base representing ties and ballast are not mutually compatible. A couple of manufacturers offer transition pieces so you can connect such track to standard sectional track. I like LifeLike's best (code 100 rail). The other brands (Atlas, Kato, Bachmann, Model Power) are all as good, but since you have to connect the rails as well as the bases, they are more of a bother to assemble.

Turnouts (track switches or "points") are all more or less problematic: none conform to NMRA standards, mostly because the manufacturers interpret the dimensions as +/-, whereas the critical ones are all either max or min measurements (that is, zero tolerance in one direction). I prefer Atlas and Shinohara. Actually, I think the ones I build myself are the best. :-)

The best looking flex track is made by MicroEngineering, but its small spikeheads are fragile, so I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner.

D) Buildings, bridges, etc: Any plastic kits that appeal to you will do nicely, especially if you see them as boxes of parts to be used to build whatever _you_ want to build. Walthers, Model Power, IHC, Pola, DPM, Woodland Scenics, etc, all make suitable N. American buildings and other structures. They range from simple to quite complex. There are more and more ready built structures available, too. Some of the buildings by Faller and a very few by Vollmer can be adapted to look sufficiently N. American, but most of them just don't suit.

There is also a huge range of craftsman kits for structures. In fact, structure modelling is a hobby within a hobby.

E) Control and signalling, etc. There's conventional DC (direct current), and Digital Command Control (DCC). Quality DC controllers cost a good deal more than the cheapies included in train sets. About the only thing to say about DCC is that you should avoid any system that does not comply with NMRA standards. (That includes Marklin's.) The few times I've operated with DCC on friends' layouts, I found no significant differences among the systems they used. The best known brands are Digitraxx, Lenz, North Coast Engineering; they all have excellent reputations. Atlas and Model Rectifier Corporation have recently entered the DCC market: they too have good reps.

Signalling is not very well developed, partly because making a decent looking, working signal costs about as much as making a boxcar, so many modellers think these "accessories" are overpriced. OTOH, there's increasing interest in this aspect of model railroading, so expect quality/price ratios to improve.

HTH

Franz T skriver:

In Eutope We have NEM so that everything works with (just about) everything else - Except Märklin 3 rail....

Klaus

There probably aren't any actual US manufacturers any more, just firms either importing or having their products manufactured in China, Hong Kong, Slovakia, Denmark or Spain. Other than Lionel (US O gauge) and Bachmann (China) you probably won't find any firms offering a complete system for the USa.

So for a US layout you have to decide on one brand of track, make another decision of controller, yet another on locomotives and pick the wagons (cars) as you like them from a broader range of suppliers.

So, you need to ask the question three or four different ways:

- which track system?

- which couplers?

- which controller?

- which locomotives?

- which wagons?

The answers will be different depending on what you want to achieve:

- a floor layout to be altered every evening by children.

- a first model layout for a young teenager.

- a beautiful scale model of your childhood railway station or the UP mainline between milepost 1234 and 1236 on the 1/1/2007.

Regards, Greg.P.

You said Marklin worked with all the others elsewhere here your story is conflicting.

_________

Steve the real

You ever hear of Kadee?

________

Steve the real

I put RP 25 wheels on my Ma rolling stock and reprofile and isolate their loco wheels - they work fine (well, excluding the coffee grinder mechanisims on many of their locos) The couplings are European standard.

Regards, Greg.P.

Of course, but they don't look anything like real couplers. ;-)

Notice I wrote "many decades ago" When I was a kid in the 50's and

60's there was no such thing as NEM. Fleischmann had their couplers which were not compatible with Trix Express which were not compatible with Maerklin which were not compatible with.... You get the picture. Apparently european manufactures finally took a cue from the NMRA... Having looked at European Prototype models advertised on various webites in the US, I get the impression that the current NEM coupler was evolved from the abominations Fleischmann put on there stuff in the 50's. But then I guess that the european market is primarily a toy train market...

Franz T

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com spake thus:

[whatever]

Peek-a-boo, Curt, we see you.

" snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com" (really Curt masquerading as another of his sockpuppets) spake thus:

[nothing of value]

Peek-a-boo, Curt, we see you.

tor_arne snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

Thanks in part to NMRA standards and part to luck, US HO equipment from all manufacturers will interoperate. The couplers match, the track fits together and every thing runs and stays on the track, all the power packs will power all the locomotives. You can buy rolling stock from Athearn, Model Power, Accurail, Atlas, Kadee, Kato, IHC, Bachmann. Proto2000, Proto1000, Red Caboose, whoever, and it will run on your track and couple with your other rolling stock. All HO power packs will run all HO locomotives. You can buy flex track, Snap Track and turnouts from Atlas, Kato, Shinohara, and Model Engineering and they will fit together. All NMRA DCC systems interoperate, the powerpacks talk to all the decoders. Quality of everything is good enough to get started with. Rolling stock, track, accessories and power packs all work. After you have been railroading for a while you will find that some models are nicer than others, they conform more closely with the prototype, the paint jobs and lettering look better, they have more details. Usually, but not always, the nicer models cost more. As long as the model looks right to you, it is a good model, and you will enjoy owning it and running it. With the exception of brass models, there is little collecting of HO models and the resale value of an HO model is usually less than the value of a brand new one. You can browse the hobby shop shelves and purchase what seems good to you without going wrong. To get going, you only need a bit of track, a power pack, a locomotive, and a few cars. Set up the track, connect the power pack, and run the train. Read a few Model Railroader magazines. Later you can return to the hobby shop to buy more track, rolling stock, whatever. For your first train I would go with the simplier DC powerpacks, and leave DCC for later.

David Starr

You're forgetting the forty-five years of the non-NMRA XP-2 (or whatever) that was standard but didn't work which lasted until Kadee's patent lasped.

Try joining Atlas and Bachmann or Lifelike!

You haven't tried Bachmann or Lifelike or ...

With the exception of Maerklin ...

Same for Europe.

After you switch the DCC decoder in Aethern or Atlas.

All depends - model or geometric?

Except ...

There's plenty of rubbish!

Franz T skriver:

But you are judging the market of today, with your exeperiance of the

50's

Wrong, this is the NEM coupler, basicly the system that all other than Fleischmann used

Well, sitting in the middle of the European market I can tell that Your guess is wrong.

Klaus

The exception to this is that you need to make sure that you buy all the same size of track.

"Code 100" "Code 83" etc. refer to the size of the rail. For a long time "code 100" track was what was commonly available, but smaller sizes were popular with those who hand-built their own track. This is because the smaller size rail looks a lot closer to the real thing when compared to the size of the equipment. Then, about 15-20 years ago, smaller size mass market sectional track became available. You can mix two or more sizes of track on the same railroad, but for someone starting out it is easier if you keep everything the same size.

There's actually quite a few USA manufacturers, but certainly they don't make a complete line of products here.

I'll use an old favorite of mine: LaBelle

wood freight car passenger car electric interurban These very small manufacturers specialize in a few areas, and don't produce enough for production outside the USA. Those types of plants are set up to produce stuff by the thousand, and such companies as this have just a small market they satisfy, by making a few car types that no one else makes.