Froggy @ thepond..com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.east.earthlink.net:
I've enjoyed reading your insights here. The only railroader in my family, my granddad, passed away nearly 30 years ago. 30 years and I still miss him like it was yesterday!
He spent over 50 years working for the L&N (1908 - 1959).
However, not all of the plug 'n play kits offer the cam as an option. See the latest issue of MR for an article on equipping a Spectrum 2-8-0 with a pnp SoundTraxx decoder.
OK - then, maybe it is a matter of MRC having not enough memory in their sound chip to offer a full range of chuffs. Only offering 8 would keep the amount of sampled sounds down. Granted, it seems to work better this way with diesels, but it shows that MRC is not as "brilliant" as they would have us believe!
You have TWO very different items being discussed.
Diesels do indeed have eight (usually) distinct 'steps' of sound (with minor variations within each step). Steamers do **NOT**!
A steamer has an exhaust 'beat' that is ABSOLUTELY synchronized with it's driver rpm (speed). That exhaust 'sound', however, varys WIDELY in sound quality with the load on the loco, throttle setting, 'cutoff', and other factors at any one time. An only FAIR approximation of that might be made in a cheap sound decoder with just eight steps of volume and tone .. **IF** the individual 'cuffs' were synchronized!
Froggy, There is something called "manual notching" on Soundtraxx decoders. One of the members of my club uses it (he's always been a sound nut, going back to the 1980's). Essentially, it allows one to control the speed and the loco RPM sounds indepently. On the Digitrax "DT"-series throttles, the knob controls the speed, while the "+" and "-" (or up and down arrows, same thing) controls the RPM's. Most people, as you can imagine, don't bother with manual notching. Now, if they would only do that with steam, where the "manual notching" would handle cutoff or the "working" sound...
Paul A. Cutler III
************* Weather Or No Go New Haven
*************
would handle cutoff or the "working" sound...< Well written software should be able to do that with steam using BEMF. The current draw is somewhat the same as a working or non working steam engine. The problem may be that the same software is used for both diesel and steam and I would think that shouldn't be done. We know that for sure with LokSound as all that changed in those units is sound files and in fact I doubt if any of the current sound decoders use different BEMF software for diesel or steam!
I have two decoders in each engine. I set the start voltage at zero on my Soundtraxx decoder and the start voltage on the motor decoder at a value lower than what it takes to actually atart the locomotive moving. Open the throttle and the sound revs up before the loco starts to move.
I also program a slow acceleration into the motor decoder, so the sound responds immediately to throttle changes, but the speed of the loco changes relatively slowly. I know which throttle settings correspond to each notch, so I can just jump from notch to notch like a prototype engineer. The throttle notches are bunched up at the low voltage end of the throttle so I can step through all 8 by the time the motor is at about 70-80% throttle. Above that is all "run 8."
That's pretty much what I was talking about. Manual notching is a good start, but there are miles and miles to go before we sleep.
On another note, you might be amused to know that i just finished some work on a pair of New Haven DL-109s for a friend. Decoders, lights, etc. I also have a pair of new Haven PAs that are almost finished that will have the usual headlight; however, by using a DH163 I am able to have user controlled number board lights, ground lights, cab lights, and class lights that can be selected to display white OR green OR off. Getting the class lights to work properly was a lot of fun.
No sound, as there is not a sound module that either one of us considers acceptable yet. Froggy,
And yet, I an continually astounded at the number of people who go ahead and buy these cheap noisemakers anyway. I said cheap, not inexpensive. I cannot but believe that they hear the same things we do. I am convinced it is another case of "The Emperor's New Clothes" being flogged on the hobby again. Nobody will admit that they spent a hundred dollars on a sound module that sux, even when it CLEARLY sux and everybody knows it.
Granted. However, they have gone miles already, it's just a matter of time before totally realistic sound gets to the market (and yes, that would mean wiring speakers under the layout for the bass because there's no way you can get it from a 1" speaker). Yes, it'll take years, but I think someone will eventually do it. Already, Soundtraxx has "SurroundTraxx", and who know's what's possible with the new NMRA Bi-D standards that are coming soon (or so they say).
"Ground lights"? How did you get those? And how did you get the class lights to change to white or green? Fiber optics? And are these models LL or are they brass?
Someday...
Paul A. Cutler III
************* Weather Or No Go New Haven
*************
They are the tiny white flat-pak LEDs, and are attached to the frame behind the ladder in the front, and above the center axle in the rear
That was the "fun" part. I tried LEDs, but couldn't get acceptable color. There is no such thing as a white/green LED, and trying to use one of each with a light pipe didn't work. It seems that it is very difficult to pipe the light from LEDs unless you have LEDs that are designed for data transmission and you have a mechanical attachment between the LED and the fiber. Well, you can't do that in a home workshop, and besides, IR communication LEDs are of no use in this application anyway. Miniatronics to the rescue! I used the small 15mA miniatronics 1.5V bulbs, the real tiny ones. I drilled out the "lenses" of the class lights, and attached a plastic tube to the insided of the loco body behind the class lights. A short bit of lucite rod went into the drilled-out lenses- enough to reach into the tube. One green and one white bulb were then inserted into the tube, and held in place with stuffing made of the cotton from a Q-Tip and some slightly used chewing gum. Wrigley's Doublemint, if it matters. It is too kewl to watch them change on command from white to green or go off. Now, when we run extra, or with a following section, or as a single section of a regular train, we can correctly display the appropriate signals.
These are the Life-Like machines.
At a later time, I am going to bring the DL-109s back into the shop and add illuminated number boards and class lights to them. I would guess that you have one or more of these, so you can see what a "terriffic" job that will be. Several orders of magnitude more difficult than the PAs.
I am ~so~ glad that no one makes models of the New Haven electrics, or I would surely become addicted to modeling it. Froggy,
I've developed a technique for attaching the "regular" fiber optic cable to SMD LEDs, since I use them in installing lights in the Athearn N scale fire engines.
The main problem is there's nothing readily available (or quick) that allows you to "glue" something to the slippery LED lens material, so I use a brute force method.
I put a drop of cyano-epoxy on the LED lens surface, press the fiber optic cable to the lens surface, and then hit it with the "fixer." Then I glob another drop of the cyano-epoxy around that joint and hit it with the fixer. Paint the whole thing to mask the light. One of those third hand devices is real handy in this.
It's not a true bond, but it works and is surprisingly rugged.
Look at it this way... folks who are spending $100 on a sound option would probably have had to spend at least half that much for a decoder option. That extra $50 is probably very close to what it costs to modify the hardware, and it's an incentive to the manufacturer to stick with DCC and make improvements. It sounds like a win-win to me.
Also, I don't think we can say that everyone knows the sound sux... everyone in this group, perhaps... (grin)
WOW - sounds like a masterful solution!!! I take it the SoundTraxx decoder is the sound-only type? If so, it's interesting to note that it still offers motor controls!
If the SoundTraxx decoder is sound/control, wouldn't you have to give both decoders unique addresses, and then consist them together when you want to run them?
Sounds like a lot of head-scratching to me... I never did figure out how to use multiple-colored LEDs in a decoder, since they are supposed to change color with a change of voltage (I seem to recall). How did you do it?
Those emergency vehicles you had in Montgomery looked pretty good. I tried that, but I couldn't get it to work, account I have to have two different colors available at a single end point, i.e., the class light lens. Of course, it can be done, but not in a home workshop. The light pipe has to be fused such that either color can be transmitted. If that is ever done the "lens" should actually have three pigtails, so that the end user could add a red source to emulate marker lights. Although red markers on locomotives were extremely rare in a general way, in some specific areas they were quite common. Chicago comes to mind right off, with the push-pull commuter trains. It is also likely that some helper engines in mountainous areas displayed red markers. Froggy,
Well, . . . yeah. That's what I meant. anybody who's not in this group isn't reading this stuff. Although, there is a hobby shop here in town that is really big on toy trains. He has Lionel and MTH by the truckload, with all the attendant sound acessories. I have heard a number of individuals remark on how awful the sound is and how loud and irritating it is. I agree, of course. There have been times when the din has literally run me out of the shop. I just put whatever I was going to get back on the shelf, and clear out until another day. Froggy,
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