Kato Warranty Failures

Sorry for the typos, I am very mad about this......

David,

I never had any problems with Kato Customer Service. I even had a chance to meet them personally at a local train show. Nice crew!

I've also heard other prople praising them. Granted, in one instance it took several tries, but at the end that person ended up with a brand new loco.

Are you accurately describing the issue to them? It sounds like a miscommunication of some sort. I realize that one of your locos works ok, but are you maybe using some sort of an oddball throttle? Is the noise always present? Or does it only show up at certain speeds? Is it present when loco is running by itself?

I have 3 of those locos and I ran 2 of them for several hours on an N-Trak layout pulling a long pass. train. They are typical, very high quality and smooth running locos I come to expect from Kato.

While back, both Model Power (first) and Life-Like (second) produced F40PH. Compared to Kato's, both of them are like simple toys. Those locos used the old and tired mechanical design from the 70s. Life-Like had a better motor, but otherwse, it was a poor mechanism. Both in appearance and mechanically, Kato unit is like a Cadillac vs. a Yugo.

When Model Power ones were the only ones available, I used their body shell on a Bachmann GP50 mechanism (which was fine tuned, as much as it can be fine tuned). They actually ran quite well. Of course, I also somewhat detailed them and repainted their bodies. I had lots of positive comments about them. I still have them.

Oh, one of the brass companies (Hallmark?) made F40PH in the late 80s or early 90s. It looked good and ran ok (just ok). Typical brass loco of that time.

Again, Kato version is leaps and bounds better than anything else on the market.

While I haven't totally dissassembled the loco, loking at the parts diagram, it uses a mechanism slightly different that other Kato locos. Again, since only one of your pair has a problem, that fact shoudln't matter.

I would say, try emailing Kato to see what they can do for you. Or better yet, give them a call and talk to the service department. They are very helpful and I don't see why they woudln't work with you.

Peteski

Yes, you do seem mad....

Relax, and give them a call (and please be civil). They *WILL* resolve your issue.

As I'm sure others will chime in here, Kato is a top of the line company who does care about their customers.

Peteski

Tell us if Kato explained why they are returning the locomotive without repairing it. If they did, what was their explaination? Did you contact Kato before you sent the locomotive in? Did Kato supply a Return Merchandise Authorization number? Have you had any corespondence with Kato about the locomotive since it was returned unrepaired?

I don't know how available the Lifelike Amtrak F40PH is, or if it has the paint scheme you are intersted in.

Peteski,

The noise is always there. So is the lurching and churning of the engine. There is no speed dependence except it gets noisier when I increase the speed. I have written all this down for them. They have never said anything about what they did. It looks like they just received it and but it in a box and sent right back. it is not a problem with my track or my controller. I have 300 other locos that run just fine, including the other two F40PH's from this release.

I am painfully aware of how Kato is the cream of the crop. But if they do not stand behind what they sell, they drop to the bottom with the rest of the pack. I currently own quite a lot of Kato equipment, and I love what I have. But $190.00 for the set and half of it doesn't work. Three trips to the post office, nearest one is 26 miles away, expensive California gas. Insurance and postage, and so far I have spent about $218.00 for one good engine. that doesn't include the time I spend in traffic etc. And Kato never talks to me or tells my why they did nothing or what they may have done. They have my phone number.

I have tried calling, three times, but never seem to get through. So I am just at a complete loss here. I have e-mailed them, and no reponse. It is like I am dealing with a black hole.

I have left the ball in their court. I doubt they will do anything this time either.

Respectfully,

David

Robert,

I first talked to the merchant who sold me the product, he is out of state. He contacted Kato, and they said for me to just send it in with a note explaining the problems, who I bought it from etc. I did. In fact both engines were less that the usual Kato quality. They sent them back. One was fixed and worked beautifully, the other, no difference, no change. So I e-mailed them and told them about this. I sent it back with all of the information again. It comes back with just a packing sheet in the box. The engine is not any different than when I sent it in. I have tried to get in touch with them, but they do not make it very easy. They seem to have lost their quality control.

Recently, I picked up a set of the F-3 BN's from a local shop. I test ran them and they were realy bad. I was lucky that the shop still had another set. The other one was the usual great Kato. I had the same issue with the recent PA/PB units. Again, I had to screen through several of them before I found a good one. I am not used to having to do this with Kato. That is what makes this so gut wrenching. I am used to having to test run Atlas, Intermountain and even Overland. But never Kato. My sister just sent me a gift of a Kato SD-40 that I was looking for. One of the Conrail jobs from a few years ago. It arrived today as well. It was dead in the box. I do not have the heart to tell her, so it is probably going straight into the trash. I am not wasting anymore time on trying to deal with Kato. Or this just may be Karma telling me I have enough trains. Either way, I sent them an e-amil about this posting. The ball is in their court. I am sure Atlas and the other companies would like to take the moey I use to spend on Kato. The way I see it so far, there is no real difference anymore.

Respectfully,

David

How do you define "runs horribly?"

What methods did you try, and what doesn't make it easy?

Hi,

As I said above, the engine lurches and churns. Okay, maybe a better description is needed. The engine lurches meaning it sort of jumps forward or backward as power is applied. It does this at all speeds; it is not as pronounced at higher speeds. The churning is the way the engine shakes from side to side as it goes down the track at all speeds. Clearly there is something out of balance here that they seem not to want to fix. Also it is loud with a nasty buzz saw sound that makes both the cat and the dog leave the room, it is so annoying. I have over 150 other Kato engines, not a single one of them makes this noise or do they shake and rattle and scare the pets away. Two of them are the other engines from the same release. I am running this on a simple loop made from Kato Unitrack. It is using a simple MRC Tech II

2500 power supply. I use this simple loop to test new engines. If they work here they go to my regular layout. And as I said 320 of 322 engines work just fine on the test loop. The only two that do not are this F40PH and now the DOA SD-40, which I received yesterday, from my sister. So I am pretty sure it is not my track or power. Kato does not seem interested in fixing the F40PH. Since this is a 2002 SD-40, that she got it on the east coast, I am in California, and so I do not know who she got it from. Given the fact that the engine is about 4 years old, I see less of a chance that anything could be done.

So I have sent them a total of 5 e-mails, there was a letter explaining what was wrong each time I sent it in according to their instructions. I have tried calling them 4 times on the phone, but I do not get through, line busy, put on hold and then dropped. I managed only to tell one person that I needed to speak to someone about a warranty issue. That is all I have been able to say. And I get dropped while on hold, or my time limit on hold is 20 minutes. I am willing to concede that some of the phone issues may be Phone Company related, but not all of them. So we have 5 e-mails, 2 letters and 4 attempted phone calls. And all I get from them is an invoice that says warranty repair for $3.50 and then is stamped "Warranty Repair, Do Not Pay". That is all I have ever gotten form them. No explanation about what they did, or why they will not fix it.

This is maddening for me because of all of my other Kato engines run flawlessly. And we are talking about the E-Units from 1993, 1994. The first generation SD-40's, SD-45's, C30-7's, even the F-3's from 1988 all the way through to the SD-70, 80 90 and P-42's run more quietly and smoothly. And depending on how you want to count, I have another 25-30 GP-30/35 units that Kato made for Atlas. I also buy Atlas and Intermountain engines because they are making some nice stuff these days. I have had to send a few back too. The difference is, they fixed the problem correctly the first time. I have never had to send the same unit in twice with anyone else.

There was a time that you could trust that new Kato engine to run smooth and quiet. You just knew it; there was trust there. Sadly, like many other things, those days are over. Their newer PA units and the F-3 units have had problems. Since I bought them locally, and tested them in the shop, I have good running equipment. But several of those engines were bad to. On the F-3 BN, we went through 4 sets before we found one that was Kato quality and I know the others were sent back. I made the mistake of buying the F40 over the internet because availability not cost. So my options are pretty much exhausted.

The Conrail SD-40 isn't in the trash yet on the hope that something might work out. The F40PH is tucked back in its box probably with the same outcome. Trash goes out tomorrow.

Respectfully,

David

Dave, if you send me the engines, I will pay you triple postage for them. For the two times you sent them back to Kato and then the postage to get them to me. Out of the hundred and fifty, you are letting two engines spoil it? Have you opened them? I know they *should* work out of the box, but sometimes things happen. There might be something as simple as a loose flywheel or the motor is twisted in its cradle or even some flash on a gear. I can't and won't try to minimize Kato's lack of response, it is not appropriate what they are doing. My offer stands if you are really going to throw them away. If not, just add a (chuckle) at the end of the message.

I went to trainland to buy mine and having been on the atlas forum for some time they saved me the trouble you are going through with these engines. I had them test run everyone they had in stock and half of them either didn't run properly or at all. They sat there with the headlight on and that was it. Join the N scale atlas forum and ask the same question and believe me you will get many good responses. The F40 had problems with the mechanism not sitting properly in the frame or something like that, they talked about extensively on the forum,hope this helps, John W

OOPS, I was thinking HO. I recind my offer, Dave. Sorry bout that.

Hello Everyone!

Well I just finished talking to Kato, and they are going to take care of this. It turns out that there is an issue with the engine saddle. Rough handling will cause the motor and drivetrain to come out of alignment. That has been the problem all along.

So I will now eat my words, realize that I was frustrated, and that I need to chill out a little bit. The folks at Kato called me to let me know what has been happening. So I will now sign off this message thread.

Sorry for the disturbance....

Respectfully,

David

Hello Everyone,

I just finished talking to Kato. They called me to tlak about the problem with my loco. It turns out, that improper packaing and shipping causes this problem. As noted in an earlier post, there is a problem with the engine saddle. If it gets handled too roughly, the motor can move out of alignment with the rest of the drivetrain. The result is what is going on with my loco. So they are picking up the tab for me to ship it to them for re-work and then to properly package it for shipping. They will also support the SD-40. So I have to eat my words, realize that frustration is my biggest enemy and say

I AM SORRY to Kato.....

Thank you all for your suggestions and your replies.

This the end on my message thread. Thanks again!

Respectfully,

David

See? You got yourself worked up over nothing. Good to hear it came to a good ending.

Yup, my message (number 3 in this thread) said that too.

Peteski