Look what the creeps at UP did.

Not sure it matters how many prototype cars have NFL logos, the point is they are trying to protect their trademark. It's their business, we can get mad, but it happens all of the time. This is one of those times we get to see the seemy underbelly of the beast that is business. I have to imagine UP doesn't care much one way or the other. They'd probably be happy if their trains didn't fall into rivers and such.

So when does the Navy start charging for the 1/6 scale T-28 I have in the garage? Na, they'd never do that - would they? :)

Greg

Outside of a few people like us I don't think anyone is going to care.

Gerg

Why yes, I have a question. How long has that bug been there?

By my calculations it has been well over 3 years.

CBix

So you advise just to smile and kiss 'em where the sun don't shine?

OK for you, I think it's c-s, but if that's what you like, go head on.

For my part they can stick their logo UP where the sun don't shine.

UP is not making any money on this. The license fees collected wont even show up in the annual report. That's why I am so upset at the amount. The $5 means a lot to me. Kato will collect $4 and UP might get $1.

In article , snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net by Tony Pierson dropped his wrench, scratched his head and mumbled,

I always thought that trademark infringement was using another persons mark to entice buyers to purchase one's bogus but similar product based on the marketing efforts of the trademark owner. I would think that the issue here is more a copyright issue. Most copyright owners have very little else than the copyright to sell. The estate of Marilyn Monroe for example has little else to sell besides her image and they market it very well. UP on the contrary is in the business of moving freight and sells various trinkets to supporters and admirers of their enterprise under their name--all manufactured under license. How does this relate to the

Bob

Bob

Unfortunately, the UP will not get any bad press beyond the model railroad community about this. Stockholders are not going to care at all.

If I knew more about decals I would start doing UP and all the subsidiary railroads decals and sell them or give them away with the purchase of undec locomotives and cars as a screw you to the UP. Although I doubt they'd really care at all.

The UP is probably within their right to do this because it is their logo but it just seems like a frivolous thing to do. I will be damned however if I pay extra for UP models because of this. Luckily I have always thought little of the UP but the fallen flag railroads like the Rio Grande, CNW, & CGW I liked. If there was a more efficient way to make your own decals it would be nice to see a website where you could download the artwork and make them at home. In one respect this could be a blessing for the decal market if someone wanted to go on the line and make decals without paying the royalty.

This probably all stemmed from someone wanting to make a UnionPacificSucks.com website (already taken although as of right now

- 9:21am Pacific Time 8/29/03 -UPsucks.com is available, hurry if you want it) and they wanted to protect their logos.

It would be nice if sales of UP models dropped so significantly that the whole thing was dropped but I don't think most modelers are going to notice or care - they just want to run their nifty yellow engines around in a circle.

Charles Bix

Or washing their units at least once a year...

-- crazyro

but my guess is that, judging by trackside photos I've seen, UP would be better served putting whatever money they pay lawyers into improving their track.

There is also the point that many lawyers have said the "pervious" RRs that UP owns are probably not collectable. They are already in public domain. The problem is it cost money to prove this is a court. It's similar to police coming to your door and taking you away because they said you did something. A day or so later, you are home. $10,000 later (lawyer fees) they decide you didn't do anything so everything is fine. Except you are $10,000 poorer.

You damn right I will...

The press isn't going to give UP a beating over this. The licensing program has been in place for half a year already, and it's not even a blip on the radar screen of the general press. What makes you think they're going to start now?

The model railroad press has covered the subject. Are they up in arms about it? No. What makes you think they're going to start now?

The shareholders haven't made a peep; they meet next April. It won't even be an agenda item for them.

JUST WATCH.

I'll watch... and I'll remind you I'm watching... UP won't take a beating in the press, and they won't take a beating from their shareholders over this. Kato set the price of the F3's, not the UPRR.

It has been written:

========================================== And, on the other hand:

BINGO! The whole purpose of trademark registration is to prevent someone else from passing off their products as having been made by the trademark owner. For that reason, a trademark applicant MUST specify what the uses of the trademark will be, AND must actually USE the trademark for that purpose.

As far as I know, the Union Pacific has never been (and is not now) in the business of creating, manufacturing or selling model railroad decals or scale model railroad equipment, and their trademark claim over such items hasn't an ounce of validity.

Even if the railroad WERE in the business of selling such items, no current manufacturer of decals or scale models claims that their products are MADE by the Union Pacific corporation. Show me a model railroader who thinks that UP decals and models are manufactured by the real railroad, and I'll show you someone who was born yesterday and arrived in town today on the back of a turnip truck.

The UP "may" have a valid COPYRIGHT claim to various logos, but copyright law differs from trademarks in at least two important respects: Copyrights are only valid for a specific period of time, after which they're in the public domain, and--more importantly--copyrighted artwork is subject to "Fair Use" by others. While the Fair Use doctrine is complex, there's no doubt in my mind that scale models of actual railroad equipment would NOT be an infringement. It's been treated as a Fair Use for well over a hundred years.

And we'd best h> The licensing program has been in place for half a year already,

If you think that this is no big deal, read the editorials in the last two issues of Mainline Modeler. And if you think that the UP's licensing program has been a smashing success, go to UP.com and take a look at the puny list of software providers and trinket merchants they've signed up . . . then ask yourself where all the major manufacturers of decals and scale models are.

I've been building models of UP equipment for 40 years, and have the greatest admiration for the UP's efforts to preserve railroad history (including its museum and the Steam Program), but this license scheme is a VERY bad idea and totally unnecessary for the protection of UP's trademarks as a provider of transportation services. With any luck, they'll figure out what a headache they've created for themselves.

JR Hill

The Navy won't but kit manufacturers of GOVERNMENT aircraft paid for with TAXPAYER dollars must now shell out royalties to Boeing for the use of the names and likenesses of former NAA products like your T-28 and P-51.

They were built for Uncle Sam and our Allies with our money.

Arggh!

Gene

And that's whether they need it or not, right?

Ever since they bought Southern Pacific, they seemed to have adopted SP's housekeeping policy.

What a complete pile of BS, we'll re-visit this next April 17 and I'll show you how wrong you are.

You wouldn't be a lawyer by any chance would you?