New Editor for MR

"A judgement recognising differences in skill and commitment is one thing. Putting down those who don't have your level of skill or commitment as "lazy, dabblers, roundy-roundy plywood central builders" etc etc is another.

Of course there's a difference between the pro footballer and the Sunday kicker having a good time with his family and friends. But pro footballers don't put down the amateur. They're happy that other people enjoy the sport at their own level. They _want_ people to enjoy the sport at their own level. That's what football is about, at an level: the joy of play."

They do if the amateur gets in their face about how they're runing the game by demonstrating a level of play that's too high AKA as being able to operate at a level that the amateur can not.

"CNJ and others of his persuasion are annoyed that others enjoy model railroading at their own level. Not only are they unhappy, they whinge and whine about it. And insult those who are quite happy to be dabblers and to build roundy roundy plywood centrals. There's an implied moral judgment there. The premise seems to be that if you don;'t work at having fun at least as seriously as you work at work, you're wasting your time, and wasting time is a sin. And it's even worse if you

+spend money_ on toys, instead of building them. "

I've found that high level modelers don't put down lesser modelers UNLESS they insist on shoving their work in their faces, asking them what they think of it and then getting upset if they receive an honest appraisal.

"What's with these guys? Why can't they be happy that other people share their love of trains, even if they don't feel moved to hone their modelling skills, but decide that _for them_ buying nice looking models is the right trade-off between time, talent, and money?"

What's with them is that they, rightly, resent those who harrass them the because they have skills and abilities that the harrassers do not. High level modelers can do what the low level modelers can while the LLM can't. Both know that.

If you know that someone is a better modeler than you and you know they're going to respond on their level why would another othe than a mental deficent insist on asking them their opinion about a models which won't measure up to their standard and then getting upset when they get the answer they know that they're going to get.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

.

"A judgement recognising differences in skill and commitment is one thing. Putting down those who don't have your level of skill or commitment as "lazy, dabblers, roundy-roundy plywood central builders" etc etc is another.

Of course there's a difference between the pro footballer and the Sunday kicker having a good time with his family and friends. But pro footballers don't put down the amateur. They're happy that other people enjoy the sport at their own level. They _want_ people to enjoy the sport at their own level. That's what football is about, at an level: the joy of play."

They do if the amateur gets in their face about how they're runing the game by demonstrating a level of play that's too high AKA as being able to operate at a level that the amateur can not.

"CNJ and others of his persuasion are annoyed that others enjoy model railroading at their own level. Not only are they unhappy, they whinge and whine about it. And insult those who are quite happy to be dabblers and to build roundy roundy plywood centrals. There's an implied moral judgment there. The premise seems to be that if you don;'t work at having fun at least as seriously as you work at work, you're wasting your time, and wasting time is a sin. And it's even worse if you

+spend money_ on toys, instead of building them. "

I've found that high level modelers don't put down lesser modelers UNLESS they insist on shoving their work in their faces, asking them what they think of it and then getting upset if they receive an honest appraisal.

"What's with these guys? Why can't they be happy that other people share their love of trains, even if they don't feel moved to hone their modelling skills, but decide that _for them_ buying nice looking models is the right trade-off between time, talent, and money?"

What's with them is that they, rightly, resent those who harrass them the because they have skills and abilities that the harrassers do not. High level modelers can do what the low level modelers can while the LLM can't. Both know that.

If you know that someone is a better modeler than you and you know they're going to respond on their level why would another othe than a mental deficent insist on asking them their opinion about a models which won't measure up to their standard and then getting upset when they get the answer they know that they're going to get.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

.

"A judgement recognising differences in skill and commitment is one thing. Putting down those who don't have your level of skill or commitment as "lazy, dabblers, roundy-roundy plywood central builders" etc etc is another.

Of course there's a difference between the pro footballer and the Sunday kicker having a good time with his family and friends. But pro footballers don't put down the amateur. They're happy that other people enjoy the sport at their own level. They _want_ people to enjoy the sport at their own level. That's what football is about, at an level: the joy of play."

They do if the amateur gets in their face about how they're runing the game by demonstrating a level of play that's too high AKA as being able to operate at a level that the amateur can not.

"CNJ and others of his persuasion are annoyed that others enjoy model railroading at their own level. Not only are they unhappy, they whinge and whine about it. And insult those who are quite happy to be dabblers and to build roundy roundy plywood centrals. There's an implied moral judgment there. The premise seems to be that if you don;'t work at having fun at least as seriously as you work at work, you're wasting your time, and wasting time is a sin. And it's even worse if you

+spend money_ on toys, instead of building them. "

I've found that high level modelers don't put down lesser modelers UNLESS they insist on shoving their work in their faces, asking them what they think of it and then getting upset if they receive an honest appraisal.

"What's with these guys? Why can't they be happy that other people share their love of trains, even if they don't feel moved to hone their modelling skills, but decide that _for them_ buying nice looking models is the right trade-off between time, talent, and money?"

What's with them is that they, rightly, resent those who harrass them the because they have skills and abilities that the harrassers do not. High level modelers can do what the low level modelers can while the LLM can't. Both know that.

If you know that someone is a better modeler than you and you know they're going to respond on their level why would another othe than a mental deficent insist on asking them their opinion about a models which won't measure up to their standard and then getting upset when they get the answer they know that they're going to get.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

.

We heard you! We heard you! Five times!

Take that finger off the send button and back away slowly :-).

Talk to Google. They obviously think that my posts are so divinely inspired that they must be printed several times.

NYCfan - A fact that must also be appreciated is that today's Internet general hobby forum participants are largely made up of entry-level hobbyists, hobby dabblers, and the no-can-do's looking to have a voice. One sees very, very little evidence of accomplished modelers among their ranks. Most of those with actual skills, if they initially participate in the general interest forums at all, soon move on to more specialized groups far outside the realm of those perused by the usual run of hobby dabblers.

The general forum's novice, strictly RTR, and no-can do crowd, are often desparate to justify their fringe association with the hobby and to be looked upon as true model railroaders...even thought their participation may be nothing more than running RTR trains on Plywood Centrals. If any concept of craftmanship's actual place in the hobby arises, their posts immediately attempt to fall back on the idea that lack of time and excess capital in every way justifies RTR - rather than it honestly being just an excuse for lack of personal modeling talent/ability. That being so, many of these same folks will become insulted and highly verbal if it is pointed out that what they are doing has little in common with what traditional model railroaders can and do accomplish. And they are especially threatened if asked to display examples of their work to backup the views expressed in their posts, i.e. "The time I save by not building benchwork, cars, structures, etc. I can apply to building of my scenery"...which, more often than not, looks like some juvenile has done it. Yes, there are exceptions, but in my experience, relatively few.

I'm afraid that there is little hope of altering this situation, encountered on so many general forums, simply because of the very nature of those participating. Hearing the truth about some facet of our pastime, be it scratchbuilding, aging of hobbyists, DCC vs DC, will be dismissed or be challenged if it disagrees with the naive group opinion, which is always at the most basic, uninformed, levels of the hobby. The only real answer to this is to deal just with the more select forums, on which advanced and accomplished modelers interact.

CNJ999

W:

Yeah, really. Why would people do this? I don't get it. A job well done is its own reward, after all.

The above "fact that must...be appreciated" is indeed partly true, but only because it is a lot easier to post online than to get published. Anybody with computer access, even at the public library, can post to Usenet or a general forum. What's so bad about this? The hobby has always had a lot of "entry-level hobbyists" and "hobby dabblers". Most model railroaders have always been the people of low-to- moderate skills and fairly casual participation - the people with a

4x8 sheet of plywood, covered with a grass mat, some plastic buildings and Life-Like trees, whose equipment came from a Lionel, Mantua, Tyco, AHM, or Bachmann set...depending what year it was. The 'Net just gives them more of a voice.

I, myself, like very much to build HO buildings, but my skills are moderate. I'm not Jack friggin' Work or Rob friggin' Corriston, but I certainly can appreciate their skills and learn from them; by doing that, I've gotten this far, and I'll get better with time.

Discourage somebody with less skills than you, and you might drive him to stamp collecting. Encourage him, and he might well become somebody *you* can learn from. Skill is a resource that grows when you pass it on, not a treasure to be jealously guarded.

Cordially yours: Gerard P. President, a box of track and some L-girders.

Must be wonderful to be able to bolster one's self esteem by putting down other people.

So much easier than offering actual help and advice.

[snip the rest of self-aggrandising drivel]

CNJ999's not putting down anyone.....IMO, he is hoping to have the no-talent RTRers look in the mirror and perhaps recognize there's much more to model railroading than RTR and plywood centrals thereby expanding the pure enjoyment of model railroading.

YMMV! :)

Ray.

Of course, none of those no-talent RTRers, hobby dabblers, fringies, and no-can-do's on the generalists' forums, who seem to be enjoying themselves immensely sharing their experiences despite their naivete, stand a chance of developing skills and finding other areas of pure enjoyment on their own and at their own collective pace unless and until they suffer the guilt of wandering from John Bortle's True Path to Model Railroad Enlightment(tm), and they'd better stay offa his lawn, too.

'Tis saddening that they're so happy and have so much to look forward to. Shame on them.

Hard to decipher the above as it is perhaps the longest sentence I have seem recently on Usenet. More attention to syntax and sentence structure might just make your comments more understandable and acceptable.

Just my unsolicited 2 cents worth... :-)

And worth every penny!!1! ;)

More commas? Like in the _New Yorker_? Not a chance.

Ah, all he needs is a few commas, and all will be clear. Read it out loud, it's easier to understand that way. ;-)

I would put commas after 'on their own'and 'pace.' I would replace the last comma with a semi-colon. You could put the whole 'who...pace' clause in brackets. That would help people like whodunnit to keep track of the dependencies.

Even the New Yorker doesn't use enough commas. What is it with this American fear of commas? And semi-colons?

Just asking. :-)

In article , Wolf writes: ...

It leaves so much more to the imagination. *8^)

Paul

-- Excuse me, I'll be right back. I have to log onto a server in Romania and verify all of my EBay, PayPal, bank and Social Security information before they suspend my accounts.

Working the rockie road of the G&PX

"...And they are especially threatened if asked to display examples of their work to backup the views expressed in their posts, i.e. "The time I save by not building benchwork, cars, structures, etc. I can apply to building of my scenery"...which, more often than not, looks like some juvenile has done it. Yes, there are exceptions, but in my experience, relatively few...."

My experience has been the exact opposite. I've found the vesties are all too willing to display their work. They often shove it in peoples' faces and ask for an opinion. They then get very upset when a truthful and accurate appraisal is offered even if it's not done in a dismissive or pejorative manner.

all too willing to display their work. They often shove it in peoples' faces and ask for an opinion.< The correct answer is "interesting" and saying _oh, George I need to talk to you_ to anyone in the area.

But then they keep coming back.

Ever try throwing a ball away to try to get a golden retriever to stop bothering you?

J> >I've found the vesties are