Re: DCC Controller Features

coupled together - the only

on/off would eliminate most of

"Sub-blocks"???? Independently wired ... WOW!! How long are those locos again?

Paul

coupled together - the only

traction on/off would eliminate most of

"Most"? How about "all"! DCC MU's can be made or broken at _any_ point, no additional wiring required at all.

coupled together - the only

on/off would eliminate most of

I bet I can wire a sub-block quicker than you can fit a decoder to a pre DCC plugged loco! ;-) And the cost of parts is under $2-

Regards, Greg.P.

Come back to reality please!

- You have to wire in your decoder after milling out space - I cut a break in the rail and run a wire to a relay.

- We don't make and break MUs at "any point", only at specific locations on arrival/departure roads or in the loco depot in/out track.

Regards, Greg.P.

plugged loco! ;-)

Where can I buy a suitable relay (never mind the cost of the wire) for less than $2?

(U.S $ or Kiwi $ - either will do)

plugged loco! ;-)

I bought mine from a business in Great Britain - they are 12 volts and 5 volts and cost me 78p each.

Where can I buy a decent decoder for $2-? (U.S $ or Kiwi $ - either will do)

coupled together - the only

on/off would eliminate most of

plugged loco! ;-)

Maybe you can. So can I. But that's not the point. I am going to put the decoder in the locomotive unit anyway, whether I M-U it with another one or not. I've already used the decoder to eliminate electrical control block, or cab control wiring, so you can't count it again to weigh against sub-block wiring. I am only going to install it one time and I am only going to install one decoder in a locomotive unit. I don't have to do any milling to install decoders, so that is not an issue. There is nothing inherently wrong with sub-blocks. They work perfectly well. They are, however, another manifestation of the limitations and unnecessary complexity of any system that controls the current to the tracks rather than controlling the individual locomotive units. Even the simplest and most regimented model railway can operate more realistically when the individual locomotive units are independently controlled as are their prototypes in the real world.

Warmest regards, Obnoxious Pratt

coupled together - the only

on/off would eliminate most of

plugged loco! ;-)

It was the reverse of the point I was arguing against.

The reverse holds for me - I don't need DCC decoders.

If one's prototype uses blocks then one must wire for block detection, whether one uses analogue or DCC. The traction current control relay is a simple adjunct to that wiring.

I just did!.

I sure as hell am not going to keep updating my block wiring - however, had I gone fully DCC I would be on my third loco roster upgrade at present.

Of course it is - just every loco built longer than ten years ago has no provision for decoders. Thats about 100 of my roster.

I'm not fussed as they don't match prototype operation.

True.

True.

How can I individually control a dozen locos on a small layout where half the track is hidden? To represent the prototype I need all those trains operating and interacting. I'm modelling a RAILWAY, not just running a single train through a section of countryside.

The very warmest regards for 2005, Greg.P.

plugged loco! ;-)

and cost me 78p

So, that's $1.48 each, and they are still 5000 miles away from me.

I heard a guy in New Zealand builds his own...maybe he'll share his secret with you.

DCC plugged loco! ;-)

volts and cost me 78p

I'm 12,000 miles away and they cost me under US$2- each.

I still won't be ahead because I operate on a block system like my prototype.

If I ever get my "decoder" operating, I will save about 30 relays and I will need about 50 decoders. Add that one up.

DCC plugged loco! ;-)

volts and cost me 78p

need about 50 decoders.

And what he won't admit is that his case is highly specialized, and different than the majority of model railways in the world..

Thanks Chuck. :-)

Now we're full circle - I want EMF feedback, speed mapping, some basic lighting control and a traction switch on/switch of function in a decoder operating on analogue. It would be reasonably easy to switch a DCC command burst into the track current for the fraction of a second to switch on/off lights and traction function. With that in selected locos, (bankers, switchers) I would have every feature that DCC currently offers without my dreaded sub-block relays.

For now, I have plenty to keep me occupied with the layout and with rolling stock building, so the "analogue decoder" project has to wait.

pre DCC plugged loco! ;-)

volts and cost me 78p

need about 50 decoders.

I certainly won't admit that - the majority of railway modellers are in Europe, where trains run intensively on block fitted tracks.

It's interesting that you keep coming back to this, since you have never clearly or convincingly explained why DCC cannot be used in conjunction with block working.

Err...because it's too complicated for him?

Or else it's not complicated enough...apparently he can get bits and pieces of old telephone exchanges, and cobble up a system that works well enough for him...however, for those of us whose time ~is~ worth something, the ease of starting out with DCC is readily apparent.

Except where there are automatic overrides, or where the train is under automatic train control. Not all trains have drivers.

One limitation is because DCC uses serial communications, the maximum number of radio control controllers is limited, the same for controllers generally, though the maximum limit is sufficient for most model railways. However there can be delays in control as you get to the limit of the system. Not a problem with DC block control. The limit is the layout size. Another limitation is the ease in which one can foul turnouts using DCC causing a short circuit. Usually with DC this is avoided if turnout power routing is used. Consisting is another limiting area.

track (in either

And DC control.

There is no

Just like manually switched DC block control. No computer, no array of buttons to worry about using my DC block system.

Clearly your old DC system was not the best for your style of layout .Cab control, a US fashion, which even I thought was the way to go was the hard way, just like the NMRA track and wheel standards.

control, separate from

It no easier to implement compared to DC, and has extra problems DC doesn't have to worry about.

For both DC and DCC, reverse loops and turnout frogs come to mind.

stock three tracks

without reference to

With DC I also operate the train. If you don't operate your track with DCC your layout does not have any tournouts.

Rubbish, I've seen many of the locations you refer to.The only example is a engine pushing a dead one. Otherwise separate tracks or one locomotive is stationary.

An unsafe practice which I have not seen in my travels.

No. Never seen it.

No.

Greg observes what actually happens. You often don't.