feedback controller and DCC

Hello,
I'm about to take delivery of my first DCC equiped loco.
However, as I've not yet gone down the route of DCC I
intend to run in off DC. I'm currently using a Pentroller
which uses feedback -- is this likely to fry the decoder?
Would I be better off with a non feedback controller?
Many thanks,
Ashley.
Reply to
Ashley Sanders
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"Ashley Sanders" wrote
Try reading the instructions of the loco when it arrives! Some decoders facilitate use with conventional DC others don't.
John.
Reply to
John Turner
I have a Lenz Set 100 and Mackay Models (who distribute Lenz) in the UK state that if you use a feedback controller you will fry the decoder (or words to that effect). If you wish to use the locomotive on feedback DC then remove the decoder and replace the link in the circuit board. However, if it is one of these continental DCC fitted jobs, this may not be possible. Bachmann, Hornby and Heljan (and others who produce foreign outline models) produce 'DCC ready' models. This simply means that the loco comes with a an internal circuit board with a link in a socket. You simply, remove the body, the link and plug the decoder in (the right way round and fitted with an eight pin etc plug). So I hope this info will be useful....take the plunge and go DCC you will not regret it! regards, Steve
Reply to
titans
AIUI, "feedback" controllers ensure that the 'train's' speed is constant up hill and down. If so, what's the point?
I'd much rather have my train(s) operate as they do now. Slowing down for the up hill grades, and requiring me and my fellow operators to give them more 'throttle', and speeding up on the down hill grade requiring the operators to ease off on the 'throttle' in order to maintain a safe and realistic speed.
After all, isn't that what 'operation' is all about? If not, you may as well have a computer run your trains.
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway
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Reply to
Roger T.
"Roger T." wrote
That's one angle, but I believe that a feedback controller will also give a little surge in power if it detects any hesitation in the motor thus potentially avoiding a stall.
Personally I'm happy with a non-feedback pure DC controller, but at some stage I'm going to have to take the DCC plunge.
John.
Reply to
John Turner
You will be better off spending your money on a dcc controller, eg a Lenz Compact, rather than another DC controller, or stick to Plain old DC trains. Your Pentroller will not harm your decoder but may not run it very well as the feedback cannot work through a decoder. Keith Make friends in the hobby. Visit Garratt photos for the big steam lovers.
Reply to
Keith Norgrove
Keith,
I agree with that. But, I'm not yet ready for going down the DCC route, though I will in the next couple of years.
I didn't have a choice in this case as the loco only comes DCC equipped.
Thanks for that and to all the others who replied.
Regards,
Ashley.
Reply to
Ashley Sanders
I disagree, DCC locks you into individual loco control rather than prototypical route control.
Run it on DC anyway. A feedback controller should just put out a voltage proportional to the knob position with a decoder fitted loco. A problem could possibly arise of the decoder can't cope with PWM DC output, but there shouldn't be a problem.
Reply to
Gregory Procter
Well I don't want to be locked into any way of working.
I don't see anything wrong with individual loco control.
There is no reason why DCC and "prototypical route control" cannot co-exist.
Ashley.
Reply to
Ashley Sanders
"Gregory Procter" wrote
Now I was always under the impression that the driver of the loco/unit operated the train and obeyed the signals (TPWS, ATC &/or AWS allowing). In that respect DCC allows for prototypical operation.
John.
Reply to
John Turner
Agreed. DCC allows you the most prototypical loco control currently available. You're not limited by artificial electrical blocks etc. SPAD and you're in deep do do. Just like the prototype.
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway
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Reply to
Roger T.
Come on Greg, what are you trying to say here, DCC does not 'lock you in' any more than DC does, it just gives you more options. The vast majority of 'prototypes' use individual loco control (or mu'd sets), one driver to each train. And from what you have said about your modelling that includes the prototypes you model. (There are prototypes that use 'route control' in a sense, I work for one of them, but it is not the norm and such prototypes are rarely modelled, as distinct from applying similar concepts to a model where it is not prototypical). If you are meaning the setting of routes by the signalman that it a seperate issue and can be done irrespective of whether locos are controlled by DC or DCC. Keith Make friends in the hobby. Visit Garratt photos for the big steam lovers.
Reply to
Keith Norgrove
There's nothing wrong with it as such, but if you want to operate anything more intensive than a GWR single loco in steam branchline or a Big Boy hauling a train of fruit wagons across the desert you need block control of a layout.
True, but you will find that either you have to write your own computer program or you are stuck with whatever restricted non-prototypical facilities your DCC system allows.
Regards, Greg.P.
Reply to
Gregory Procter
That's fine if your idea of model railway operation is limited to being a locomotive driver! Some of us are _railway_ modellers.
Regards, Greg.P.
Reply to
Gregory Procter
No-one is limited to artificial electrical blocks unless they are limited in other ways. The prototype operates it's trains by blocks and signals. If you want to be able to over-run signals with analogue control, just make your electrical blocks longer!
Regards, Greg.P.
Reply to
Gregory Procter
The two systems lock you in to _different_ forms of operation.
No, it gives you different options.
Absolutely, but DCC means that I can only drive one train (or several badly) where I want to model/operate an intensive railway service at a relatively small mainline station. I want to be a railway operator, not a slot car driver.
Ahh, I'm not sure why you consider route control not to be prototypical - my prototype certainly used it in the form of interlocking.
Certainly, but interlocking/route control immediately takes one back to blocks, so why spend all that money on a system that has the "advantage" of eliminating blocks when you then have to install blocks? I'm not convinced that being able to arrange head on collisions between locomotives that cost me a weeks pay each is such a wonderful advantage, especially when the equipment to achieve it costs almost as much as my loco roster and continually requires upgrading.
Regards, Greg.P.
Reply to
Gregory Procter
You haven't tried to go anywhere in model railways that DCC doesn't allow you to go, so far. :-)
Regards, Greg.P.
Reply to
Gregory Procter
"Gregory Procter"
What are you talking about? How many trains/locos can you operate at one time? Me? It's one at a time.
I may have up to four (Or more sometimes) trains/locos runing on my GER at any one time, but each train/loco is under the control of one operator.
For example, an operator brings a westbound through freight train to a stand on the Main Track at Granville Jct. The "switcher" operator pulls off the van (caboose), sets it onto the rear of the cut of westbound cars sitting on the Siding (Loop), goes back onto the train, pulls off the interchange (exchange) cars from the rear of the freight and sets them aside on Yard Track number one. He then goes goes onto the Siding (Passing Loop), grabs the departing westbound cut of interchange cars he'd set there earlier but now woth the van attached, and sets them onto the rear of the westbound through freight on the Main. Once this is done, he heads back into the yard to classify the cut of cars he's just lifted from the through freight and set out onto Track One.
While all of this is going on, the engineer of the through freight's 4-8-2 has uncoupled his loco and headed over to the the inbound lead at the roundhouse. As he's heading over to the roundhouse, the engineer of the 2-8-2, has, once the 4-8-2 is in the clear, come off the siding and backed onto the through freight ready to take it on westward.
The 2-8-2 was sitting on the other end of the Siding from which the yard switcher picked up the freight cars to be tagged onto the through freight.
This little operation all takes place at the same time, with up to three engines moving at once, with at least two of them on the same track at one time (the Siding), each loco under the control of its own engineer and without a single block toggle switch being thrown.
And oh yes, there's one or two other trains and or locos running elsewhere on the layout at the same time all the above is happening. None of these movements requires electrical block switches, nor do they require any "programming" other than the intitial "programming" of each locos operating attributes.
If I wanted to go further, I could also have the headlights working (I don't, because in steam days locos run with headlights "off"), I could have the bells ring when appropriate, and sound all the prototypical whistle signals involved in the above movements. All with no "programming".
Again, what are you talking about? DCC, computer programs? What are you going on about? There's "computer program" for DCC.
Do you have DCC installed? I think not, as you don't seem to have a clue what it's all about. Really.
The only "programming" is setting up the locos individual address and, if you wish, acceleration and deceleration tables, that's it.
Of course, you can "consist" locos. i.e. have them coupled together and controlled by from one cab, but again, that's not "computer programming".
Read the above description of an switching movement that takes place four times per "day" on my GER. twice each day, east and westbound.
Don't like North American? Then substitute the above for a UK passenger train dropping say a restaurant car and a couple of carriages, adding three extra carriages all while exchanging locos.
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway
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-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway
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Reply to
Roger T.
"Gregory Procter"
Unless you go to automation, you can only "drive" one train/loco at a time. DCC makes this a far more realistic option as you are not limited by your electrical blocks nor the need for isolated sections/block so that you can add and detach vehicles from trains at any point on your railway with no fuss.
You don't seem to have a grasp on what "operation" is all about.
The rest snipped as it shows a lack of knowledge (Or the reluctance to accept) what DCC is all about.
THE most realistic was to control and operate trains and locomotives that is currently available.
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway
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Reply to
Roger T.
Right on Dave.
"Operation" doesn't mean just driving trains (Which is why MSTS is so dull and boring), it involves prototypical movements, correct signalling and operating practices typical of the era being modelled, unrestricted by the limitations of block wiring, isolating sections, etc., etc..
In the UK, operation could mean you have loco drivers and signalmen communicating with each other via signals and only using voice when the prototype would use vocal communication.
No more "OOPS, forgot to turn on the block" or "HEY, who's got my train?"
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway
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Reply to
Roger T.

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