Re: Flynn writes a naughty word, was: Station masters cottage - Helensburgh

That is true Mark, I would have put it the other way around. Most of the North American Steam looks much nicer than what I have seen of the Australian Steam. Of course, I have seen the North American Steam live and only pictures of Aussie Locos.

In general, I'll have to agree with you except for the Australian 60 class Beyer-Garratts. Saw and photographed them in the mid 60s in the Meadowbrook (?) yard area of New Castle. IMO, they are quite impressive. That was quite a day. Rode in loco cabs, electric and then steam, from Sydney to New Castle. Have an H0 model of one, slightly Americanized. Removed buffers, added a cow-catcher [roo-catcher :)], bell, and US style headlight.

Ray H.

I tend to agree. Most North American locos are very easy on the eye. But unlike Flynn, I'm open-minded enough to appreciate and enjoy all the many and varied forms that steam locos took, even the "ugly" ones!

AD60s very impressive locos, no doubt about it. The yard you saw them at is Broadmeadow, where the 60 class were concentrated as the end of steam drew near.

Sounds very interesting! Your use of the term roo-catcher makes me laugh

- we have recently fitted a number of our diesel multiple-units with heavy pilots/cowcatchers, as a result of numerous collisions with roo's on the way to Broken Hill!

But, jokes aside, cowcatchers were common in all Australian states except New South Wales, where their use was limited to engines operating on "pioneer" branch lines. These were lines that were very cheaply built, and had no lineside fencing to keep the critters out.

In Fact Terry Flynn makes an extremely subjective statement. If he wants to talk about how NSWGR steam maintance procedures were better those employed on US class 1 roads he is extremely welcome to it. Because I can tell you all now and as a fan of the NSW prototype the US class 1 shit all over us in that department. And another fact that Mr Flynn would probably like to ponder is that most of the NSWGR steam fleet was in technical terms obsolete in every way shape or form by about 1930 With the exception of the

36,38,57-58,59 60 classes. And even then the 36's and 38's were not at the cutting edge. Hell most African countries/colonies were operating a more technically advanced steam fleet that what the NSWGR was in 1955.

To me, Mr Flynn just sounds like one of those GWR/BR western region foamers. Which I had the pleasure of calling an idiot when he said the Western class diesels were a much better locomotive than the Alco DL 500.

His initial comment criticised the appearance of the head-end brakeman's shelter on one of my model locomotives. The provision of such an amenity should be contrasted with those of the majority of the NSWGR fleet, where the enginemen were very poorly provided for in terms of amenities. The typical loco cab only had timber planks for seating, and no glazing in the cab sidesheet "porthole". Which, incidentally, was mainly useful for allowing cold winds and rain into the cab.

But then, Flynn is a mere dilettante - he has no experience of the very harsh working conditions that railwaymen took for granted during the steam era.

Now Im really confused this all started off about two buildings at Helensburg (Home of Pig Farmers and Potato growers). Now we're on to models of toilets, or Dr Mr NEWTON Esq, photograph a model in a toilet in Helensburg,(I know Paris Hilton gets around but I didnt know she was in Helensburg). And what was she doing Mr M, throwing up after a hearty dinner of pork and spuds.

Lets get back on track people, everbody is into something different just for the enjoyment of it.

And by the way Will The U.S of A also produced some of the ugliest steam engines ever produced (along with some shockers of models - refer above) but then we take the good with the bad.

Agreed Mr. Big. I did say "most", I have seen some gawd ugly locomotives here as well. I must admit that I have not seen ALL the variations of Australian steam, so I can only judge by what I have seen. If Mr. Flynn or Mr. Newton would provide a link to what they consider the best of Australian Steam, I would be more than happy to have a look and render my subjective opinion to them.

Most camelbacks fall in that category for me. Not to mention the incredibly bad working conditions for the crew.

The weirdest camelbacks were the Reading's equivalent of the classic late British late Victorian locomotive for at, lightweight trains: the

4-2-2.

The Reading's were Camelback, Vauclain compound.

I've never seen one modelled. But I'd like one (either O-gauge or HO).

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, IMO, CNJ 4-6-0 camelbacks are one of the most beautiful steam locos ever built...of course, I may be biased having grown up with them and rode behind many from Newark, NJ to the Jersey shore (Water Witch).

Those were the ones I was thinking of Steve, but this morning I could not think of the name.

Try

for a pretty good overview of Australian locos, steam and those others..... ;-)

James McInerney

STOP! In The Name Of The Lore!

At

, homepage for "Lambing Flat" my HO NSWGR branchline, includes information on the full size NSWGR. the "Rurr Valley Railway", my G gauge West Coast of Tasmania garden line or for the family stuff!

Thanks, I took a look and still stand by my opinion.

It certainly is. I don't know that I'd call camelbacks beautiful, but they were certainly interesting looking machines, I find them fascinating. When saw the preserved CNJ 4-4-2 in the B&O museum, we kept coming back for another look, we thought it was the most interesting locomotive in that collection.

It's an easy choice to make as to what I consider the best looking Australian steam locomotive...

Also, 5910 is not a bad looking Steam Locomotive.

A very good looking loco IMO, but I deliberately excluded it from consideration as it is a US design, built by Baldwin. 20 were delivered as oil-burners, but most were later converted to coal, which improved their looks greatly.

They were quite distinctive, not only in their appearance, but for their sound as well. They had a superb, deep-toned Barco whistle, clanking rods, and a very audible pump exhaust. As a child I would lie in bed, wide awake on cold winter nights, and listen to them shunting the nearby stock yards at Flemington. They made quite a profound impression on me then.

Happily, 5910 is preserved by the RTM at Thirlmere, and while not currently operational, will be running by 2005.

A photo of 5910 in excursion service, taken a few years back, is at:

Sorry, Will, I linked that photo as it was already in my album. I've posted another, which is an early publicity photo of one of 01's sister engines. What's "LOS"?

> Also, I clicked to the next picture and came up with #1307 at Clyde > Yard. There is one candidate for "Ugly Locomotive". :)

Yes, the 13 class are probably an acquired tatse for someone brought up on North American steam. They are a rebuild of a tender engine, which may go some way towards explaining their quaint appearance. They were however, sprightly performers, even in their old age.