Resurgance of the railroads



As long as you're worshipping meaningless statistics, why don't you compare the two based on GDP of the respective nations? Seems to me that is as relevant as any sort of per capita comparison. China is "growing" in many ways to catch up with the US, but they aren't nearly close in terms of personal cars. That doesn't mean they won't catch up... and despite the huge gap in productivity and standard of living, their home grown pollution problems appear to be much worse than ours. Explain please?
Is oil use now a sin unto itself?
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On 5/1/2008 10:25 AM eόphemism spake thus:

Good question, and I think the answer is "yes". At least the developed world *says* it's trying to get away from oil as fast as possible (even though there are no real signs of this happening any time soon), leaving the developing world to continue to pollute the planet at record levels.
In reality, we are still an oil-based world and probably will remain so for a long time to come.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

The future has to be an ever increasing cost of oil as more and more people want to use it. The US cannot hope to artificially hold down the price by invading and occupying ever more oil producing nations.
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The latest invasion and occupation doesn't seem to have held down the price any.
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"video guy - www.locoworks.com" wrote:

There are so many possible answers! ;-)
eg. Where do you think the price would be now without Iraqi oil? or; Doesn't that demonstrate US strategic incompetence? or (add your own)
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wrote:

If it's true as has been alleged that certain Americans invaded Iraq for the procurement of oil, it's to their advantage if the price of crude goes up. Same goes for government taxes. Hey, it's a windfall all around, except for someone who just payed $45,000, for something which may get 15 mpg on a good day. Or, that new motorhome which gets 6 mpg.
Cheers, John
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John Fraser wrote:

This may come across as anti-Iraq, but what else do they have that any yank would want? Is there a shortage of dried dates in the US? Holiday home development in Iraq? Export/import opportunities for sand? ... What did I miss?
Greg.P.
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eόphemism wrote:

Why would one do that? The meaningful comparison of vehicle usage can either be in total or in terms of per hhead of population. Either way, China is so much lower as to be irrelevant.

In what sense - do vehicles operate on a dollar basis? ie the more dollars a country has the more oil wastage?

Of course they can't "catch up" in terms of vehicles per head of population - there isn't that much ongoing supply of oil in the World.

Compare US polution in industrial cities at a comparable stage of development.

There is only a finite amount of oil in the World, once it's gone it's gone. Wastage of that resource is a sin against humanity.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

Um I think the US uses 25%. of the world's annual energy usage. According to the wikipedia article on energy use in the US, for 2004, the world used 5.6 TW, and of that, the use used 1.34... and that's just in oil.
mark
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On 4/28/2008 6:53 PM mark spake thus:

>

>>

You'll have to do better than that; Wikipedia (the "encyclopedia" that any idiot can edit) is not what I would call a "reliable source" (to use their own jargon).
Not that I didn't also say in the post you responded to that the U.S. is still the world's biggest energy hog.
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wrote

Keep in mind that crude oil consumption doesn't necessarily mean road vehicle. That includes air transport and power utilities as well.
Cheers, John
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P. Roehling wrote:

True, but all neo-capitalist gummints have drastically cut research, on the grounds that "The Market Will Take care Of It." And private companies won't undertake such research, since it won't pay off in the next couple of quarters, so they would fail in their responsibility to shovel money at the shareholders.
The notion that "The Market" will "allocate resources rationally" is one of the most pernicious supertsitions ever invented. Economics is not science, and never has been. At best, it's been a handicapping system for the stockmarket; at worst it's been a prop to the ruling classes' ewxploitaion of everything and everybody. And if you think that statement excludes the leftists, think again - what do you think the Marxist economists were doing in the Soviet Union?
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wrote

It seems auto makers can squander small fortunes on making less than practical vehicles. But, they are far from alone as the fast food industry can rack up a lot of waste, too. For those who live in a democracy, being there permits a degree of freedom regarding waste.
Cheers, John
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There is a reason why many citizens in China ride bicycles - cheap to acquire, cheap to use, and easy to store. I believe few Americans truly appreciate what is meant by fuel consumption. Nearly any racing event is about big engines and big horsepower. It all requires fuel.
Cheers, John
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John Fraser wrote:

Back in the 70s (during the 70s fuel crisis) some sports magazine did a survey of the fuel consumption associated with various sports. Baseball and football had the highest. Partly because of all the team travel, but mostly because of the fan travel. I doubt that the figures have chnaged much since then.
HTH
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John Fraser wrote:

And that's just the traffic lights!
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On 4/28/2008 7:50 AM John Fraser spake thus:

I think your observation is based on a very common misconception, one seemingly shared by G. Procter and others here, that China still has millions of bicycles in the streets of its large cities. This once-romantic image, of Beijing streets full of bikes and few cars, is now a thing of the past as the Chinese take to the roads in cars with a vengeance. Automobile traffic in Beijing is at LA levels of gridlock.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

Whether or not China has bicycles on the streets of it's main cities (obviously there are huge numbers of IC vehicles) the number of vehicles per head of population is about 1% of the figure of the USa. There are huge numbers of bicycles, just as there are in most cities of the world. In Asia, people use bicycles, foul two stroke motor cycles and three wheelers, trains, buses and at the very bottom of the list, private cars.
Try viewing reality instead of creating your own US-centric version.
Regards, Greg.P.
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I'm not saying their automobile transport is rare or nonexistent. My sister & brother-in-law are there as teachers and they ride bicycles which is still much the norm in many communities.
Cheers, John
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John Fraser wrote:

I have to admit that the air polution over Beijing, as it's shown to us on TV, is impressive, but it's not all private cars speeding on motorways! Here in New Zealand our largest city, Auckland, suffers "gridlock" from time to time because the ring-road conceived in the 1960s/70s is only about 80% complete and public transport was always developed/not developed subject to private enterprise rules. What I'm getting at there is that if you stuff enough vehicles into a city you will get traffic problems, especially when the streets and traffic system were designed to cope with bicycles, rickshaws and the occassional government motorcade.
Regards, Greg.P.
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