Rookie Painting Question....

Good evening Andy;

Some automobile modelers use brake fluid to strip away the paint from the plastic.

Cheers, John

It's the proverbial piece of string - some paint is affected by one solvent and others by ... I haven't come across paint finishes that are removed by alchohol but I have found finishes that are (temporarily) softened. Brake fluid can damage some plastics if they are left to soak in it. It seems to leach some of the plasticiser from the plastic turning it brittle. Bottom line is that you try your prefered technique on a part of the model that's not visible. Start with the most gentle technique and work up to the more brutal ones later, that way the worst that happens is you waste some time compared to destroying a model if you use the brutal technique first.

Regards, Greg.P.

No. You're not using enough alcohol and it evaporates long before it can damage the paint. Also you'd use a 50 or 70% alcohol solution for a wash not the 91% you use for stripping.

The alcohol only strips the paint if you soak it for and extended period of time, say several hours.

Eric

Andy wrote:

"I've stripped a couple of passenger cars by immersing them in alcohol

- and it worked beautifully.

Now, after I paint them the proper color, I'll be wanting to put on a thin wash of black to highlight.

I've seen articles that say India ink and alcohol makes for a great wash.

My question is, won't this new application of alcohol do the same thing as before - strip the existing paint?"

Hey guys, way to not answer the question asked.

Eric

John Fraser wrote:

"Some automobile modelers use brake fluid to strip away the pa "It's the proverbial piece of string - some paint is affected by one solvent and others by ...I haven't come across paint finishes that are removed by alchohol but I have found finishes that are (temporarily) softened.

Brake fluid can damage some plastics if they are left to soak in it. It seems to leach some of the plasticiser from the plastic turning it brittle.

Bottom line is that you try your prefered technique on a part of the model that's not visible.

Start with the most gentle technique and work up to the more brutal ones later, that way the worst that happens is you waste some time compared to destroying a model if you use the brutal technique first."

Hey guys, way to not answer the question asked.

Eric

John Fraser wrote:

"Some automobile modelers use brake fluid to strip away the pa "It's the proverbial piece of string - some paint is affected by one solvent and others by ...I haven't come across paint finishes that are removed by alchohol but I have found finishes that are (temporarily) softened.

Brake fluid can damage some plastics if they are left to soak in it. It seems to leach some of the plasticiser from the plastic turning it brittle.

Bottom line is that you try your prefered technique on a part of the model that's not visible.

Start with the most gentle technique and work up to the more brutal ones later, that way the worst that happens is you waste some time compared to destroying a model if you use the brutal technique first."

Hey guys, way to not answer the question asked.

Eric

John Fraser wrote:

"Some automobile modelers use brake fluid to strip away the pa "It's the proverbial piece of string - some paint is affected by one solvent and others by ...I haven't come across paint finishes that are removed by alchohol but I have found finishes that are (temporarily) softened.

Brake fluid can damage some plastics if they are left to soak in it. It seems to leach some of the plasticiser from the plastic turning it brittle.

Bottom line is that you try your prefered technique on a part of the model that's not visible.

Start with the most gentle technique and work up to the more brutal ones later, that way the worst that happens is you waste some time compared to destroying a model if you use the brutal technique first."

Andy schrieb am 16.01.2007 03:21:

It depends on the kind and brand of the paint.

I use often Tamia paint for buildings and it will be washed away by alcohol immediately. Other brands will at least stay long enough to make a quick wash possible.

That depends on what kind of paint you use. Personally, I avoid any solvent-based paints if possible. Those solvent are toxic, and what's worse, they accumulate in the brain, liver, etc.**

For weathering, water-based acrylics such as are sold in craft and arts stores are ideal. If you repainted the cars in a high gloss enamel, overspray with Testor's Dullcote or similar first to provide tooth for whatever weathering techniques you use.

Besides, weathering is not a one-step process. I don't use black paint washes alone, in fact I usually don't use black at all. I prefer dark to medium greys, mud and dirt colours (along the bottom edge of the car, for example), and dry-brushed rusty browns and reds for rust streaks. A "clean" passenger car might get an overall, very thin wash of dark grey, just to kill the gloss, and maybe a bit of black on the roof. Some people have great success with coloured chalk dust, but I haven't tried that.

Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman, and other model railroad mags run weathering articles about once a year. You'll find magazine indexes on line.

HTH

**Footnote. Some of you old-timers may remember a custom painter, IIRC it was Thomas Dressler (sp?). I recall him writing to the model mags warning against using solvent spray paints. He had just been diagnosed with liver cancer, caused by his habit of not using a filter when spray painting model locomotives.

Wolf spake thus:

Wolf: Like the man said, congrats for not answering the question. The OP asked:

My question is, won't this new application of alcohol do the same thing as before - strip the existing paint?

Someone gave the correct answer, which is basically, don't sweat it; the amount of alcohol, and the length of time it sits on the paint, isn't enough to dissolve it.

The only finish which is really affected by alcohol is shellac, which uses alcohol as a solvent, and can be readily dissolved simply by putting alcohol on it. Other than that, use this wash, which is regularly used by many modelers (including the legendary John Allen and George Sellios) to accentuate detail and highlight depth.

I have used the alcohol and india ink wash successfully. The black wash settles in the nooks and crannies and highlights them. I practiced first on a cheapy trainset car and found I wanted a VERY dilute wash (lots of alcohol not much ink) for best looking results. The alcohol won't affect the paint. The alcohol stripping requires soaking the car in high strength isopropyl alcohol for a long time. The alcohol&ink wash is much lower strength and the alcohol evaporates in a minute or two. Not to worry.

David Starr

Wolf:

But Tom Dressler did custom painting, so his exposure would be a lot higher than those of us who are just painting our own stuff. Besides, with no disrespect meant, isn't this warning against using spray paint at all because of solvent exposure to a non-filter-wearing painter kind of like saying that you shouldn't use a Dremel tool, because it might throw sparks into the eyes if you aren't wearing goggles? If Tom had been using a filter all along, his health might still be fine. (in fairness, I have not seen this letter; this may have been his point,and I certainly mean no disrespect to Mr. Dressler by saying this; there probably were and are a lot of modelers who didn't use masks, and cancer of any kind is a terrible disease and one you can never be sure you won't get, whatever you do).

Cordially yours: Gerard P.

I'm sorry to have created such a furor over what I thought would be a relatively simple question for experienced modelers. In any event, many thanks for the suggestions; I'll be trying to do part of the job tonight.

I will make one change in my plan, however. I'll be using an alcohol/water solution (50/50) instead of straight alcohol - simply to lower the potency level of the alcohol.

Again, thank you all for your help.

Andy

There's

Andy spake thus:

No need for that. As has been pointed out, at the low concentration and short time of application, you need not worry about your wash damaging your paint job. (As long as you use rubbing alcohol, 50% ispopropyl, not pure alcohol.)

Thanks Dave, but the strength of the alcohol that I have is the problem. I have several bottles of 97% isopropyl - courtesy of the major medical center for which my wife works. That's why I'm planning to dilute it to about 50%.

Andy

David Nebenzahl wrote: [...]

Firstly, I said it depends on the kind of paint used, which it does.

Secondly, OP's question indicates that he has additional, er, gaps in his understanding of "highlighting" as he called. So I gave him an alternative to alcohol-based washes. I suspect he's smart enough to realise that.

PS: you must've got out of the bed the wrong side this morning, you're usually not this curmudgeonly. Have another cup of coffee. :-)

That was Tom's point: he had ignored the warnings about those paints; toxicity. In fairness, it must be said that those warnings back then (early 1970s or thereabouts) were not nearly as informative as they are now. Consumer protection regulations etc have made us all warier. Sadly, Tom died a few months after he wrote that letter.