Thin Electronic Wire

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:12:15 +1200, I said, "Pick a card, any card"


How many Kiwis have slaughtered Iraqis? Probably none. The same as Americans or Australians. See how that works?

Yet the insurgents remain and will remain until they are the dominant power in Iraq. Democracy needs to be protected there, Greg. New Zealanders have no idea what a war for democracy means. Yours was handed to you on a platter when the United Kingdom spat out the dregs and you formed an independent government.

The US most certainly did declare war. Congress approved it. Australia signed on. New Zealand, being afraid to admit it has no armed forces, declined. -- Ray
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Ray Haddad wrote:

I could see that, except for the facts. I'll admit that there aren't actually a lot of verifable facts, but one that the US released was that 203 uncharged Iraqi individuals died in US custody in Bagdad's central prison in the first year of US occupation.

That sounds reasonable - do you understand the meaning of the word "insurgency" and it's relevance in a country occupied and repressed by a foreign occupation force???

Democracy needs to be introduced there, Ray.

And exactly where would you get any understanding of democracy?

Exactly when did this "declared war" end and why didn't you stop slaughtering innocent people?

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On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:00:18 +1200, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Greg, you and the facts remain strangers.

You do realize that many of those died of injuries sustained well before they got there? Like, in combat. Against American and Australian soldiers. You know. During battle?

Do you understand the meaning? Are you supporting them? Do you believe they're in the right?

Tell that to the millions who voted for the leadership they have now. Free elections were held for the first time in many decades.

Heh. Better than you, clearly.

As I recall, it was a year ago in March. Seriously. Look it up.

-- Ray
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Ray Haddad wrote:

Dead bodies remain fact whether I knew them before you slaughtered them or not.

You yanks illegally attacked Iraq - they have every right to defend their country and still retain "innocent" status. Or are you suggesting that yanks killed at Pearl Harbour were guilty and deserved to die???

Of course I do.

The ones who kill foreign occupation forces most definitely are.

The "leadership" consists of a foreign occupation force and Quisling Iraqis.
Free elections were held for the first time in many decades.
"Free elections" are valueless when foreign occupation forces decide who can stand, when foreign occupation forces restrict who can vote and who control what those so-called elected leaders can and cannot do.

No, you're a yank, you have no idea of democracy or it's value. You've supported dictatorships against self-rule for the last 60 odd years - your valuing of democracy is zero.

Any politician can make decrees - the reality is that the situation in Iraq has worsened since a year ago in March - look it up.

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wrote:

Not wishing to split hairs here (and having very few left to split anyway), Congress did NOT declare war. It merely authorized The Shrub to use military force to make Iraq comply with UN resolutions. Similar to the tactic used by The Bush a dozen years prior. Probably based on the theory of the Tonkin Resolution which Landslide Lyndon used to get us bogged down in Vietnam. No declared war - no need for a casus belli or a formal peace treaty afterward. (unlike Korea, which 50 years late is STILL a declared war, despite the armistice..) Not that I'm implying that Iraq is like Vietnam. After all, both Bush and Cheney knew how go get out of Vietnam very effectively... BTW, do they have trains in Iraq??

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Franz T wrote:

Well, they *used* to!
Seriously I'm aware that the railway continues to tun, in spite of everyone's best efforts to the contrary. IIRC there was an article on this topic in Trains not too long ago,
Cheers,
Mark.
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On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:47:59 GMT, Franz T wrote:

Amen! War is good business, invest somebody else's son.
--
Steve

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Franz T wrote:

Imagine you're an innocent civilian living in Bagdad - would you be happy with the distinction? (given that there is probably no Iraqi in Iraq who hasn't lost at least one close family member)

Yes they do! Though not well maintained.
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wrote:

No Greg, I wouldn't I was just trying to point out to Ray his flag-waving ignorance of the actual events. (And no, we don't want him back...)

(just trying to get back on topic..)

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On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 07:29:32 -0700, Steve Caple wrote:
For a take on shameless Chambliss, see:
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A9265
--
Steve

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Steve Caple wrote:

What a craven turd this Chambliss is! Even by the egregiously low standards of his party, he's a fucken' maggot.
Cheers,
Mark.
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Would you two bigots take your ignornace off line. It is people like you wh have ruined this once great forum. Thanks.
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On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 17:31:42 GMT, Tom wrote:

I suggested they get a room, but they couldn't decide how to share the sheep.
--
Steve

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One for ewe, one for me.
Cheers, John
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Tom wrote:

I for one apologise for getting into this argument. However, I continue to be concerned for people around the world and when faced with such bigotry, arrogance and deliberate insult against my country, I will react. Saddam slaughtered a million people with direct US help, another million died because the US insisted on horrific sanctions against Iraq for a decade, and acording to reasoned estimates another 670,000 Iraqis have died since the US decided to invade. I'm human, so don't ask me to ignore such facts when they are thrown in my face.
Regards, Greg.P.
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On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 16:22:38 +1200, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

No kidding. That's why he's gone now. -- Ray
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Ray Haddad wrote:

Gone a bit quiet there, Ray. What's up, run out of things to say about Iraq, and why America should keep sending it's young people over there to get killed and horribly maimed? I notice you have no response to factual statements regarding the postwar situation in Germany, either...
Cheers,
Mark.
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On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:20:14 +1000, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Nah, just busy with daily life outside of this newsgroup. But you can carry on as long as you wish. -- Ray
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Ray Haddad wrote:

Busy bombarding the newsgroup with nonsense posts about AWG and how good things are in Iraq, more like.
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On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 18:00:16 +1000, I said, "Pick a card, any card"

Er, moron, you just complained about my lack of posting here. Make up your mind. -- Ray
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