Track standards for larger scales

Why? Have you ever seen a Citron auto?

There are such laws and ordinances in the U.S., I'm not sure they apply to running a small steam engine in one's own yard. I know live steam clubs won't allow one to run their own steam locomotives on their tracks unless they comply with a bunch of rules including boiler certification. Industrial boilers, including steam tractors, require certification.

I have built boilers for stationary engines and always do a hydrostatic test. I have seen what hand grenades do to the human body and would rather not experience similar damage with scalding steam added. It's a simple test, just don't get stupid and use compressed air.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Oh, yes, you do. The live steam guys have to have their model boilers inspected and certified. If they give rides to the public, they have to have insurance, too. That's killed a lot of open days.

Keep in mind that most safety regulations were lobbied for by the insurance industry. I read US history many decades ago (wrote an essay on the robber barons), and vaguely recall that in the 1800s the insurance companies' safety rules were more stringent than the government's. If you didn't comply, you didn't get insurance.

HTH

In the US, full-size boilers are regulated either by the individual states, or by the insurers, IIRC. I'm assuming there's a code for model boilers, I just don't know how it's administered.

The way this reads to me is that the hydro is optional, or at the discretion of the builder - hopefully I'm wrong, and it's mandatory?

Hi Mark, If one builds one's own boiler and never presents it for testing then even if testing is mandatory how would anyone know, in particular the builder?

Greg.P.

On 10/13/2007 5:03 PM video guy -

Ah, you mean Citroën. Yep, seen 'em.

I'm not sure I understand the question - but I see what you're getting at, I think. Someone working in isolation could conceivably build a boiler and be unaware of the need to test it, and they would fall through the cracks of the regulatory system. They would only be caught out if they were to attempt to run a small-scale steam loco at a club track without documentation, for example. Or maybe if they turned up at a rally with an uncertified traction engine or the like.

But, you'd assume that anyone with enough nous to build a boiler would be aware of the code, and know what the test requirements are. I say this knowing that live steamers and their ilk are social creatures who tend to congregate with like-minded types. Anyone who was daft enough to build a boiler and *NOT* test it would be placing themselves, and anyone around them, at great risk.

Cheers,

Mark.

I really don't know, I only build them for myself so I never asked. I have built steam engines as gifts, but never with a boiler. It's just my personal standard. Having tested my boilers to 200% of pressure I am confident they are safe, but that's in the condition I keep them. I would have a hard time living with myself if a child were injured by a boiler I made even if someone had damaged or modified it. There's always some genius who will see how fast the engine will go if they fool with the safety valve.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

I built a steam roller at a high school evening class. The tutor told us that no certification was required as the size and pressure were below that requiring certification. The boiler is a pot boiler from seamless copper tube with soldered ends and is larger than I'd consider usable in G gauge. Then there's the likes of Mamod and MSS live steamers available over the counter, which aren't necessarily in the "sociable" category. Who do I ask and why would I bother? (I know the answers but it's not obvious without a lot of research)

Greg.P.

Look at it this way, for every one who knows it's a good thing to verify serviceability and safety there's at least one fool who will think they are above all that or simply won't think. That's why they have so many warning placards on so many things you buy. The truly scary thing is they reproduce and vote.

The more I learn about people the more I like my dogs.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

I think the testing standard in New Zealand is 300% of maximum operating pressure. That allows for some deterioration of the boiler materials between tests.

Greg.P.

A lot of books and articles I have read suggest 150%, but that's too easy to reach accidentally if one is being ham fisted.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

It probably was so by then, but things have changed greatly during the last 25 years. In the EU there are mandatory codes for small steam boilers.

Okay, I see now we're talking at cross purposes. When you say 'built boilers", you're referring to small externally-fired toy boilers, yeah?

Cheers

Mark.

Yes, that's what I was referring to. I wouldn't attempt to build an industrial boiler.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

I've seen children at the hospital burned by the hot water in an electric jug, so a Mamod could cause some injury.

last 25 years. In the EU there are mandatory codes for small steam boilers.< The US has different rules as near as I can tell. If one goes to old steam equipment shows there is something about boiler pressure under, I think 10 pounds, that doesn't need inspections. At least it was that way a couple of years ago when I asked the operator the question.

On 10/13/2007 7:18 PM marknewton spake thus:

My guess on this, at least here in the US, is that if one is building a boiler for use on one's own railroad, say a garden layout, that no regulatory body is going to be involved, and it's up to the owner's discretion (even if there are laws on the books saying Thou Shalt Test Thy Boiler, they're probably ignored by just about everyone).

But if one is operating a public concession (like, say, the miniature steam railroad here at Tilden Park in Berkeley), then one most certainly must meet safety regulations.

By the way, all this talk about boilers brings to mind one of the things that everyone has in their own home that sometimes scares me: domestic water heaters, essentially medium-scale near-boilers. Have you ever seen the devastation caused when one of these things blows up? It can quite easily completely destory an average-sized house.