Track standards for larger scales

Greg Procter wrote:


It probably was so by then, but things have changed greatly during the last 25 years. In the EU there are mandatory codes for small steam boilers.
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Venlig hilsen
Erik Olsen
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Erik Olsen DK wrote:

I've seen children at the hospital burned by the hot water in an electric jug, so a Mamod could cause some injury.
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last 25 years. In the EU there are mandatory codes for small steam boilers.< The US has different rules as near as I can tell. If one goes to old steam equipment shows there is something about boiler pressure under, I think 10 pounds, that doesn't need inspections. At least it was that way a couple of years ago when I asked the operator the question.
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marknewton wrote:

Look at it this way, for every one who knows it's a good thing to verify serviceability and safety there's at least one fool who will think they are above all that or simply won't think. That's why they have so many warning placards on so many things you buy. The truly scary thing is they reproduce and vote.
The more I learn about people the more I like my dogs.
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
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I agree.
My local club stopped certifying boilers several years ago. Their reasoning: If we certify it, and it blows up, we share liability. If we don't certify it, we aren't liable.
See how lawyers are making us all safe.
We do test boilers when people bring them in and want them tested, though.
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Bill Kaiser
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marknewton wrote:

I really don't know, I only build them for myself so I never asked. I have built steam engines as gifts, but never with a boiler. It's just my personal standard. Having tested my boilers to 200% of pressure I am confident they are safe, but that's in the condition I keep them. I would have a hard time living with myself if a child were injured by a boiler I made even if someone had damaged or modified it. There's always some genius who will see how fast the engine will go if they fool with the safety valve.
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
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Dan wrote:

I think the testing standard in New Zealand is 300% of maximum operating pressure. That allows for some deterioration of the boiler materials between tests.
Greg.P.
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Greg Procter wrote:

A lot of books and articles I have read suggest 150%, but that's too easy to reach accidentally if one is being ham fisted.
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
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[ ... ]

Use finesse. I've mostly read test to 200% initially, then 150% annually.
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Bill Kaiser
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snipped-for-privacy@mtholyoke.edu wrote:

I never use finesse, I prefer Head and Shoulders.
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
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On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:13:56 -0500, Dan wrote:

Retired, eh? Then I'd say Depends
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Steve Caple wrote:

Geeze, don't rush me :)
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
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Dan wrote:

Okay, I see now we're talking at cross purposes. When you say 'built boilers", you're referring to small externally-fired toy boilers, yeah?
Cheers
Mark.
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marknewton wrote:

Yes, that's what I was referring to. I wouldn't attempt to build an industrial boiler.
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
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On 10/13/2007 7:18 PM marknewton spake thus:

My guess on this, at least here in the US, is that if one is building a boiler for use on one's own railroad, say a garden layout, that no regulatory body is going to be involved, and it's up to the owner's discretion (even if there are laws on the books saying Thou Shalt Test Thy Boiler, they're probably ignored by just about everyone).
But if one is operating a public concession (like, say, the miniature steam railroad here at Tilden Park in Berkeley), then one most certainly must meet safety regulations.
By the way, all this talk about boilers brings to mind one of the things that everyone has in their own home that sometimes scares me: domestic water heaters, essentially medium-scale near-boilers. Have you ever seen the devastation caused when one of these things blows up? It can quite easily completely destory an average-sized house.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

Oh, yes, you do. The live steam guys have to have their model boilers inspected and certified. If they give rides to the public, they have to have insurance, too. That's killed a lot of open days.
Keep in mind that most safety regulations were lobbied for by the insurance industry. I read US history many decades ago (wrote an essay on the robber barons), and vaguely recall that in the 1800s the insurance companies' safety rules were more stringent than the government's. If you didn't comply, you didn't get insurance.
HTH
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Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:

Most people don't realize that Underwriter's Laboratories, which provides the UL certification on SO MANY items, was set up by the insurance industry. If a manufacturer wanted insurance coverage on something they wanted to sell, it had to pass the UL tests or else no coverage. UL has pretty much become the de facto regulatory agency in place of the government on so many things, particularly electrical.
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Rick Jones
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David Nebenzahl wrote:
>> ... Here in Australia full-sized boilers are regulated and licensed >> by the respective states - model loco boilers are similarly >> regulated and licensed by a national organsiation. > > I wonder if we (Merkins) have such rules. Given our laissez faire > approach to just about everything, I kind of doubt it, but I just > don't know.
In the US, full-size boilers are regulated either by the individual states, or by the insurers, IIRC. I'm assuming there's a code for model boilers, I just don't know how it's administered.
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marknewton wrote:

After a bit of searching it appears to me that scale model live steam boilers are regulated - or not - on a state by state basis. The Safety and Operating Rules on the web site of the Golden Gate Live Steamers mentions requirements for inspection, testing and certification of locomotive boilers under section 2.10, but it describes it being done by the club itself and makes no mention of any government regulations or requirements. http://www.ggls.org/sor/sor2000.htm#sec2.10
On another forum for hobbyist machinists a thread mentions that the state of Michigan implemented testing and certification requirements for model boilers following similar action by Maryland. http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?tv427&highlight=&sid 7866933613ddbd0bd91cdf92a66db9
So there does not appear to be a national standard for scale model boilers, but what the line is that differentiates model from industrial is, I have no idea.
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Rick Jones
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My friend built a 1.6" scale narrow gauge (4.75") mogul for his home layout. He operated at a club hauling the public, which decided that all the live steam boilers needed to be inspected and certified. The club arranged for a Hartford Steam Boiler inspector (and not the state of Virginia) to visit the club and certify the boilers. As I understand it, the inspector said there were no regulations that applied to these small (my friend's was made from 8" dia copper pipe with tube sheets he cast form melted down bronze valves scrapped by a dry cleaner, protected by home made safety valves) 150 psig boilers. The inspection amounted to verifying the safety lift settings and the hydro, plus a detailed interview about the construction techniques employed. He passed, and still proudly displays the miniature Hartford inspection tag wired onto one of his pop valves. Gary Q

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