TRAINZ versus MS Train Sim - Which is BEST?

Let the fla, er, games begin!
Paul - "The...Guy"

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Which is best?
Neither. Go outside and get some fresh air. Or do something constructive and work on your model railroad. Quit wasting your life playing computer games.
--Dan
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That was less than helpful....
I believe the MS sim has add on packs and an ability for user done stuff to be done as well.
Rick "Dan O'Connor" <dan[at]ferrarishields.com> wrote in message

and
games.
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"Dan O'Connor" <dan[at]ferrarishields.com> wrote:

From my participation on the Trainz forum, I'd say that the vast majority of simmers are also model railroaders. Many use Trainz to build the dream layout they don't have room for. I used it to work out design questions on my new layout. It's just another facet of the hobby, certainly not a waste of time.
As to the original question, I haven't played MSTS since I bought Trainz 2 years ago. And just pre-ordered Trainz 2004 on the first day I could.
Trainz has a better, easier interface, is less buggy, has great support, thousands of free objects available for download, etc.
Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"
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"Dan O'Connor" <dan[at]ferrarishields.com> wrote in message

Dan,
I'll have you know that I am NOT wasting my life playing computer games, thank you! . . .
Actually, I'm wasting my life reading and writing to email lists, forums, and newsgroups lately...Let's get the facts straight!
Paul - "The CB&Q Guy" (Choo-Choo)
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I consider the TRAINZ to be a better product. There is also much more free add-ons and downloads from around the world for this one rather than for the MSTS.
Also looks like the "2004" version is now being printed ready for distribution.

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I have no idea which is better, MSTS vs. Auran, as I only use MSTS. However, if one points their browser to train-sim.com, the following amounts of downloads exist:
Auran Trainz 26 MSTS - 9727
The 9727 downloads are for equipment, scenery objects, routes, etc.
MSTS is far from perfect, but I had many hours of enjoyment on this sim. I will only get better.
And my experience is I very rarely have my machine lock up in operation. The only time in the last year since using my new computer has been when I have uploaded a new route, and don't have all the necessary add-ons. The error messages generated almost always give the necessary information to sort it out.
regards, Jerry
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I uninstalled both.
Both are boring.
-- Cheers Roger T.
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra / Home of the Great Eastern Railway
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At least it's better than "MS Space Simulator"; quite possibly the all-time yawner of software.
-John
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On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:46:16 -0700, "Roger T."

I can't say anything about Trainz...but I have MSTS, and yes, it is boring.
Oh sure, there are dozens of routes and equipment available for free downloading...but it all boils down to just watching a picture of some very fake looking scenery moving by....absolutely NO feeling of movement under my arse, no rocking/rolling motion. It's just a picture show -- and no matter what route, the pictures are all usually very much the same, as add-on routes include a "batch file" to steal all the shapes/textures from the six basic routes included with MSTS.
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snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net wrote:

Well, just face it. Running a REAL train is boring!
This isn't a car or an airplane with vast freedom of movement, after all. On a mainline run, the engineer has NO control over WHERE he goes - only how fast, and that only because it's safer to put a human in the cab than a computer in case something goes wrong. (Humans can be self-reprogramming)
Why do you think they've got those deadman switches that turn them off if you don't keep active in the cab?
Model railroading is exciting, frantic and fast-paced by comparison!
--
The Institute reserves the right to act first. Look, historically, governments
and people are reactive. They have to depend on popular consensus of some
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:11:22 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@mindspring.com (Joe Ellis) wrote :

I agree with everything you've added to the thread!!!
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They're no longer called "deadman switches," but "alerters" - at least in freight locomotives. When these go off, the engineer has to acknowledge them by pressing a switch or operating one of the controls. Otherwise, the alerter will apply the brakes.
Dieter
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On 11 Oct 2003 14:58:07 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Hzakas) wrote :

They are also called "alerters" in passenger locomotives.
The older "deadman" features were all too easy to negate by crewmen....I used to see fusees wedging them down, brake shows set atop the pedal, etc.
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"Steve Hoskins" <\

Plus, the MSTS is not that realistic. Trainz isn't much better.
MSTS, the one I'm most familiar with: -
The locos can't pull as much in reverse as they can in forward.
You can't change cabs.
The independent brake is far too slow acting.
The "switch/turnout/point" route control is the pits as there's no track plan easily available.
See above when it comes to setting a route through a yard, very difficult to do.
You can't build a train with a switch engine and then transfer to a road engine to take the train over the road.
When on the road, you can't reach the end of the run, switch the yard, build a new train, and return. See note above about not changing cabs.
The turntable doesn't work.
In the UK sim, the signalling is nowhere near realistic.
North American signalling is only slightly better.
The level (grade) crossing gates open the wrong way.
Lower quadrant signals give an upper quadrant display.
And there are many more.
Great of all you're after is eye candy, but not much good for anything else.
-- Cheers Roger T.
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra / Home of the Great Eastern Railway
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:16:00 -0700, "Roger T."

Plus, they won't travel as fast either. If you set up a consist with two GE Dash 9's, one forward, one backward, at 4400 h.p. each, basically all you ''re receiving is 6600 h.p. For some reason, rear-facing units tend to have half their power.

Are you talking the "appearance" of a cab? yes, you most certainly can. It's done within the .ENG file of a particular loco.
If this is not what you mean, please accept my apology.

If it acts al all....

This has always been one of MY biggest gripes. I am a map enthusiast and certainly, a track plan for each route could/should be provided.

Yup, because you can only set the switch immediately in front of (or behind) a train. And in a yard, the switches tend to be close, so you have to be very careful.
However, you CAN pre-plan routes using that "fabulous" Route editor features of MSTS. (Lotsa luck....)

Okay, now I see what you are getting at above......

In the USA sims, the signal ling is nowhere near realistic. I'm sure this also holds true for the Japanese routes.

They do?

If you go to train-sim.com, you'll soon find out everyone there raves over the program...but if you look even closer, you'll find out most of them haven't gone through puberty yet either.
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I've embedded some responses to your statements.

Break open the pocketbook and consider purchasing a couple of the following routes:
3DTS Cajon Pass 3DTS Techatchapi Maple Leaf Tracks Kicking Horse Pass Maple Leaf Tracks Sandpatch
For free, Rich Garber's Ohio Rail is wonderful (up to release 10), as is the recently released BNSF route west of Whitefish. Marias 3.1 fixes most things wrong with the original MSTS Marias route, including signal errors, and crossing gates going the wrong direction.

I thought this fixed with the patch released from Micro$oft.

True
So fix it with Bob Boudouin's updated physics files.

You can get pictures of the plan in the "Activity Editor". That is what people use when putting together "Know your Route" books, which Rich Garber did on his routes.

Kinda like the real thing, isn't it?

True, but you can create separate activities for each, finishing the yard activity, and then transferring to a road activity. For this discussion, we will neglect the fact that activity design is not a simple task.

See my response above.

Supposedly to be fixed on the next release.

No comment, no familiarity, and frankly, no desire to learn.

Fixed on several shareware releases,and

Oh, this sim is a lot more than eye candy. It is pretty damn close to real considering it is a US$40.00 software.
My biggest discontent with the sim is the physics are not that great, especially for long trains. Trainhandling in undulating terrain is way different than what one does in real life.
I can't rig the .eng files with the correct horsepower ratios, and have the locos act correctly, a linear proportional throttle is required for the load to apply properly at low speeds, showing the proper loco amperage.
I model the 1950s in 1:87, but I get most of my enjoyment from the sim with the modern stuff, particularily since I work in the industry. Sitting in a cab of an SD70M, in throttle 8, with the speakers on the computer turned up a bit gives a pretty good feeling of being in the cab.
Yes, the sim is boring, but as another poster pointed out, so is everyday railroading. I don't keep the alerter active on the sim, but I ought to, as I've played the sim a few times when bored with TV, killing some time at the end of a day, but dog ass tired. I've fallen asleep, kinda like I could do in the real thing.
Creating content for this sim is also a full time hobby. I created the Soo line's Ashland to Hurley iron ore line about 1.5 years ago. Got all the track laid, but burned out on the effort. I probably had over 100 hours invested. But I had a hoot researching the line, and learning about a section of railroad that I am very interested, and is pretty much gone (track ripped up between Hurley and Mellon WI, iron ore operations ended in 1965 I will probably never model this line as I'm consumed with GN and NP stuff, and this was a good way to exercise the urge to learn about the operation.
Bottom line is both Auran Trainz and MSTS have opened up the railroad hobby to a group of individuals that will probably never visit here, and in my opinion, is a wonderful compliment to my 1:87 efforts.
regards, Jerry
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On 10 Oct 2003 10:36:49 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@juno.com (Jerry Zeman) wrote :

I already did break open the pocketbook. Yes, those routes are a cut above the default routes, though I am a bit disappointed with Cajon Pass. The more I run it, the more I find it to be not so accurate as the real thing which I seem to visit every other week. (In all fairness, some things ARE very accurate, and other stuff is way out in left field. The creators of Cajon and Tehachapi [note spelling] did improve their talents with that Tehachapi route.

No, that was the issue of using the front coupler on locos. THAT was addressed in the patch.
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free
the
Yes, should be available in a couple weeks.

Not really a fair comparison. If you own a legal copy of Trainz, you can use their download station, which as I type this, has 16983 items available for download. Most people that create stuff for Trainz upload them to Aurans site, but there are other sites that do have stuff available for download. There's everything from signs, people, signals, locomotives, cars, layouts, scenarios, etc available for download.
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NO...It was originally scheduled to be released then...but according to MS, it now won't be out until Spring, 2004.
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