What happens to the caboose?

Wade,

Good question and I never really thought about it until you asked. The only thing I can tell you and noticed comes from the V&O Afton Division finale DVD from Pentrex. In one scene near the end of the DVD, they show a switching maneuver at the Patrick Coal Company on the KC&B shortline which was part of the famous V&O. They uncouple from the caboose completely, and perform their switching maneuvers at the mine (picking up loads and dropping off empties). Then I assume they pick the caboose back up and go off on their way. Hope this helps.

Gary

Not so. It depends on a lot of things

Again, it depends. If you are working trailing point switches you just leave it sitting there while you work. If you have to run around your train to switch, you just run around the whole thing, cab and all. There was no rule that said the cab had to stay on the main track or that the engine could not run around without it attached. It was nothing more than just another car that was carried on the rear end of the train.

That's because you're making it more complicated than it was. Quit thinking about the cab as a special car. It wasn't. It doesn't matter what you do with it while you are working. Stick it somewhere out of the way until you are ready to go on, whatever, it doesn't matter. Just make sure that it is on the rear end of your train when you are ready to move down the line of road again. If you don't already know, I was a professional railroader for many years. When we had cabeese.

F

I guess I was overplaying the purpose of the caboose as you said. I was looking at it more like an "end of train" device more than just another car in the train.

When I was young, I was told that the caboose was on the end of the train and it was painted red in order to keep one train from colliding with another. I guess that thought just stuck in my head. That idea doesn't make much sense when you really think about it because if you can see the caboose of the train in front of you and you aren't expecting it, it's probably too late.

At least now I can now go back to pushing my caboose into a siding before servicing my industries without feeling guilty about it. That method always seemed to work just fine. As an added benefit, now I don't have to worry about the "train police" popping in when I least expect it either.. ;-)

Thanks for your expertise.

Wade

"> I guess I was overplaying the purpose of the caboose as you said. I was "> looking at it more like an "end of train" device more than just another car "> in the train. "> "> When I was young, I was told that the caboose was on the end of the train "> and it was painted red in order to keep one train from colliding with "> another. I guess that thought just stuck in my head. That idea doesn't make "> much sense when you really think about it because if you can see the caboose "> of the train in front of you and you aren't expecting it, it's probably too "> late.

The caboose was also the conductor 'office' and a place for the rear brakeman would be. *Steam* engines are much 'messier' than diesel cabs and there is not realy any place for the conductor to deal with paperwork. With diesels, radios, automatic (air) brakes, ABS/CTC, and FREDs, the caboose's *various* functions have been eliminated.

"> > >The other day when I was operating my small layout, I was going through "> the "> > >usual switching routine of uncoupling my caboose and pushing it into a "> > >siding so that I could pick up and drop some cars. "> > >

"> > >While I was doing this it suddenly dawned on me that in real life "> > >railroading, pulling out of the siding onto the main without a caboose "> was "> > >probably a no-no. "> >

"> > Not so. It depends on a lot of things "> >

"> > >

"> > >So... back in the day when freights had cabooses, what did they do with "> the "> > >caboose whenever they were spotting cars at trackside industries? "> >

"> > Again, it depends. If you are working trailing point switches you just "> leave it "> > sitting there while you work. If you have to run around your train to "> switch, you "> > just run around the whole thing, cab and all. There was no rule that said "> the cab "> > had to stay on the main track or that the engine could not run around "> without it "> > attached. It was nothing more than just another car that was carried on "> the rear end "> > of the train. "> >

"> > >

"> > >Did they leave the caboose in a siding, or run around behind it and push "> the "> > >cars down to the industry, or what? I'm stumped. "> >

"> > That's because you're making it more complicated than it was. Quit "> thinking about the "> > cab as a special car. It wasn't. It doesn't matter what you do with it "> while you are "> > working. Stick it somewhere out of the way until you are ready to go on, "> whatever, it "> > doesn't matter. "> > Just make sure that it is on the rear end of your train when you are ready "> to move "> > down the line of road again. "> > If you don't already know, I was a professional railroader for many years. "> > When we had cabeese. "> >

"> > F "> >

"> "> ">

\/ Robert Heller ||InterNet: snipped-for-privacy@cs.umass.edu

|| snipped-for-privacy@deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153

8> The caboose was also the conductor 'office' and a place for the rear 8>

"wade-kiki" wrote in news:6vgKd.1$by2.0@trnddc03:

One other consideration. When switching a facing point turnout, some roads still required that the caboose be set off before the engine coupled on to the back of the train. The two reasons both involved safety considerations. First, some older cabooses had wooden underframes that would not take the strain of being between an engine and a cut of cars. They could not survive the forces of the pushing move. Later, after the introduction of steel framed cabooses, some roads still banned pushing a cut of cars with the caboose between the engine and the cars because of the danger that the jostling of the move might cause any crew member in the caboose to fall and be injured. And, some conductors just did not like the banging and bouncing of being between an engine and a cut of cars.

Sadly, even the name is disappearing from the railroad lexicon. A railroader who stopped by my LHS when I was there today claimed that it's now called a "shoving platform" and that the term "caboose" had disappeared from the rule book.

I'm sorry - a train without a caboose just don't look right. Incomplete.

And Wade, they weren't all red, by any means - green, brown, blue, just about any color you can imagine, a caboose has probably been painted in it. As the old adage says, "There's a prototype for everything..."

Froggy, Did they ever turn caboose's like they did locomotives or were they just tacked on the end of a train which ever way they faced? To me it seems like it wouldn't matter much if they were turned or not. I ask because I saw a diagram of a yard where the caboose track ran up to the turn table. Was this a just way for a locomotive to get around a caboose on the track that it hauled there, a way to turn the caboose or both? Bruce

Bruce, Cabooses might be turned if the smoke jack from the stove was putting out too much smoke. They would turn it so the jack was behind the conductor in the cupola and the smoke would blow out behind him.

I worked as a switchman in the 60s and we *never* turned cabooses, and most had coal burning stoves. If you think about it, though, the windows were usually closed when the stove was going so the smoke wouldn't have been a problem.

Conductors had to watch their train for hot boxes and other problems, and visibility was a bit of a problem if the cupola was on the front end of the caboose. Hence, caboose designs with centered cupolas and later on with bay windows. I remember a yardmaster once asked us to separate the caboose and a wide load with a low car to improve visibility, but in general the brakemen just had to deal with it.

On my railroad, short moves, with short trains, were sometimes made down the main line without a caboose on the rear. Sometimes cars were shoved. A brakeman would ride the rear car (or front car in case of shoving) as a flagman. Typically this would be a "local" moving from one industry to another. This was in ABS (automatic block signal) territory, so the train had some protection aside from flagging. I don't know if this would be allowed in dark (no signals) territory.

Paul Welsh

No one mentioned one of the prototype caboose benefits. When trains passed each other, the crews in the cabooses would check each other's trains for hotboxes or dragging equipment. The caboose provided visual indication that the other train hadn't broken apart, and a place for the crews to look for a "highball" (indicating that the train was OK) from the passing train.

Today those functions are provided by trackside sensors, EOT devices, and roller bearings that practically eliminated hotboxes.

8>When I was young, I was told that the caboose was on the end of the train 8>

Not just red but a whole range of oxide or mineral red pigments were used, often given names refering to their origin or treatment. Terra-di-Siena, Venetian red, Persian red, Swedish red, Terra cotta and Burnt umber are but a few examples.

I grew up in Anaheim, CA which had a mainline from ATSF and branch lines from UP and SP serving it. All of the cabooses that I can recall seeing had the offset cupolas and my memories are all of the cabooses being on the rear of a train with the cupola toward the rear. That's not to say they were never put on a train the other way around, just that it happened so few times that I can't recall ever catching on that way. The UP, especially, must have had to do it because their branch terminated in Anaheim and there was no loop, wye or turntable to reverse direction for the return to LA.

UP's cabooses had the cupola basically centered, so it wouldn't have mattered anyway....

GM&O used essentially the same cabs as the Santa - Fe. In fact, The Athearn 1249 caboose is a dead ringer for a GM&O cab except for the steps. Anyway, these did not get turned unless it was convenient, and sometimes not even then. In all the years I worked on the railroad I never once turned a cab. They just ran whichever way they were. Model railroaders frequently make things more complex than they are in real life. When you're out there in 25º freezing rain or 101º blazing heat, trying to switch boxcars, you don't really give much of a damn which way the caboose is facing. You just want to get IN it and go home.

I don't think all of them were centered as I recall being surprised when I finally saw a model of a center cupola caboose. I thought that it looked odd. The same for bay window cabooses.

UP cabooses had the centered cupola since the early 1940's, if not earlier.

You must be thinking of either SP or Santa Fe...

The steel cabooses had centered cupolas. The wood cabooses had a slightly off-center cupola. When I was railroading in the 60s, the wood cabooses were not used in road service. They were used only for transfer operations and, perhaps some locals.

Paul Welsh