1st radius curves

In message , Gerald H writes

No

No

No

No

No

Yes

Don't know

Bachmann state categorically that their stuff won't go round 1st radius curves.

My Bachmann 158 was the only thing that would go around a space saving curve I made which fitted nicely inside a first radius one! ;o)

peter

My 3 car 158 just goes round a hornby first radius, if it is stopped she wont start though and jumps off the rails on the power vehicle. Kindest regards Simon Judd

( in need of a update )

will go around these curves before I waste any money.

I'm intrigued by this one as I'm pretty sure that my old Mainline Std 4 would go round 1st radius. Is the Bachmann chassis less flexible?

"Gerald H" wrote

Nah, the Mainline chassis was so flexible that the wheels would fall off the axles.

Several Bachmann locos will operate on first radius curves, but the manufacturer does not recommend such use.

John.

Given all the answers so far have generally been 'No' - What is the point of

1st Radius curves if you can't run your stock on them!?

Hornby enabled its engines to go round 1st radius by several expedients:

a) narrow chassis, so that wheel sets could slide sideways in them; b) long connecting rod pins and oversize holes in connecting rods, so that the rods could slide sideways, too; c) narrow gauge on the wheels along with over-wide tires (tyres), so that the wheels wouldn't bind on the tight radius; d) deep flanges, to prevent the wheels from derailing when they climbed the rails.

All the above observed on the 2-6-4T, which was in other ways an excellent "young modeller's" engine, being heavy, durable, and a good runner.

Hornby's compromises made for trouble on NMRA or similar track and turnouts. Also prompted Peco to offer "universal" turnouts.

HTH

Mike Snoswell wrote: [...]

Old Hornby's stock could, did, and does run round 1st radius. Easily.

1st radius is a holdover from Hornby's toy train era, when they thought in terms of robustness and play-value rather than prototype accuracy and looks. 1st radius allows somewhat more complex track layouts in small spaces, which was (and is, I think) an advantage in many people's eyes.

For serious model railways, you should use the largest radius possible on your space, and do without some complexity. Complexity is not good: it increases construction problems and costs, it greatly increases maintenance costs and time, and rarely adds enough operating flexibility to offset those disadvantages. (The really large layouts seen in some American homes on closer examination often turn out to be collection of simple layouts strung together and wound around the room.)

Most people have enough space in garden sheds, spare bedrooms, et al that they can use 24" radius and up, especially if an around-the-wall shelf layout is chosen. An around-the-wall layout has another advantage: if placed high enough, it interferes very little with other uses of the room (such as accommodating an overnight guest.) On a linear sectional layout, such as is often seen at exhibitions, you can use even larger radii.

HTH

In message , Mike Snoswell writes

In the olden days, you only had first and second radius curves so if you wanted double track that's what you had to use if not using flexible track. Then, later on, they brought out third radius curves, which has rendered first radius somewhat superfluous. However, I suspect first radius curves are still produced for those who have olden-day stock and want to extend their layouts.

Actually, in olden days track was known by its radius in inches, not as "first radius", etc. I assume that the "first radius" nomenclature was introduced in order to avoid referring to the track by its radius in inches or millimetres or both, and everyone getting extremely confused.

"Jane Sullivan" wrote

The American market is far better provided for than here in the UK. I'm sure some of our (former) Colonial friends which expand on what I'm saying and quote actual radii, but I do believe that Atlas for one produce setrack up to (at least) 24" radius.

I know many modellers would like larger radius curves here too, but it doesn't seem possible to convince the UK manufacturers.

John.

Not in the UK. The emphasis here is on having a large number of small rooms rather than a few decent sized ones. It affects the resale value of the property.

(kim)

In message , John Turner writes

Maybe someone ought to import the American stuff and sell it over here. A bit of healthy competition can cause manufacturers to do all sorts of things that otherwise they would not dream of doing.

In message , John Turner writes

I just looked at the US Bachmann web site, and they do their E-Z Track in the following radii: 15, 18, 22, 26, 28, 33.25, 35.5 inches.

Well, if you want a train table in the middle of the room, I can see your point. But a 12" shelf around two or three sides of the room doesn't take up much space, and a quarter circle of 24" radius doesn't take up much additional space in the corner, either. I assume that a small bedroom would be around 8ft by 10ft, which woould give you up to about 28ft of layout shelf, depending on where the door is, and where you place the wardrobe. It would leave a space of 9ft x 6ft for a bed etc; but the head of the bed can go underneath the train shelf, can't it? Depending on the household authorities, you may be able to widen the shelf to 16" for at least one side of the room, if you narrow it to say

6" or 8" in front of the window. A reasonable space for a point to point layout IMO.

HTH

Too true, too true. If I ever buy a property, I would like it to have a small number of decent sized rooms, rather than lots of tiddly little things like where I am at the moment.

Ian J.

Unless they've changed it recently, Atlas radii are 15" (sic) 18" and 22". I can't see running most N. American HO stock on 15" radius. IIRC the original Dublo 3-rail was 15" and the "large" radius was 17.25".

I guess they have to; there's no compatible flex track. The first 3 are Atlas standards.

In Canada maybe? In the UK a spare bedroom (or "boxroom" as it's often disparagingly called) would typically be 6ft by10ft and not necessarilly a regular shape. There's room for a single bed and small wardrobe _or_ chest-of-draws but seldom both. The wall with a window would normally have a radiator along it as well which limits the use of the space immediately above the radiator. Because of the narrow width of the room 24" curves would use up a considerable amount of the usable space in the corners. On top of that, recent UK dwellings are seldom constructed with attics or basements so there's often a great deal of clutter to contend with. Much of this gets dumped in the spare bedroom, hence "boxroom". Hey, and I'm one of the lucky ones. What some people have to contend with is beyond belief.

(kim)

All mfrs make 18" radius track, and most make at least one other radius. 18" is the train-set standard.

You can run small switchers (0-4-0T, GE 45 ton) and short (36ft) old-time cars on 15" radius with no trouble. 40ft cars are usually OK, too, 50ft and up are generally impossible.

HTH