BR arrows question

Different eras of British Rail - known (not surprsingly) as "small logo" and "large logo".

I think Mike is referring to pre-TOPS blue, then locos had the ex-Dxxxx number and BR logos on each cab. Upon TOPS renumbering post-1972, this was replaced with a single BR double-arrow (in most cases, Deltics being a noteable exception) roughly halfway along the body. Large logo is something different and I've never heard the 'small logo' era referred to as such.

They are both small logo era (ie not full body height), some locos has a single logo, quite small, about the centre of the body side, on others there was a logo under each cab window (total of four for a double cab loco) which looks slightly larger. Nothing critical, I just noticed it and wondered why - Seem to recall the early locos had a metal logo on them (I think the class 87s had these, mounted under the cab windows), not sure oif that is relevant.

Regards

Mike

Like this:

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"Rich Mackin" wrote Like this:

One thing not to get confused with is the "One off" livery painted on 25 322 Tamworth Castle, known as the "Ice Cream Livery". It was I suppose the style nearly adopted for Large logo, but featured small black arrows on the second mans cab and small black numbers on the drivers cab (Instead of white that is) and featured rap around yellow ends instead of just the front face. The final touch was a silver roof rather than grey. No idea why?

Ah! possibly the cast plates under the windows got retained and those without, or when they got removed, got the painted one in the middle of the side?

logo

possibly

"small logo"

ex-Dxxxx

being a

If only things had been as regimented as that, as a look at the 1973 Ian Allen 'Combined Volume' one would show! No doubt there were official policies regarding the use of the various double-arrow logo's but there doesn't seem to have been much control over their use, at the workshop / running sheds level of BR - there are numerous photo's around showing, for example, Brush type 2's (Cl 31's) in original green sporting either one or two double-arrow's (which were meant for corporate, Rail-Blue livery only) on each side...

BTW, the first loco's to be given TOPS numbers were the Cl 84 electric's in late '72, the first diesels started to be allocated TOPS numbers in '73, the first being applied mid to late '73. All IIRC.

That was a Doncaster works speciality, I gather.

Trying to identify all the variations of BR symbols and numbers in the late 60s/early 70s is a nightmare, as not only do the positions of numbers and arrows vary, but the font was changed as well and there are photos of locos in blue but with numbers in the old font.

Crewe seemed to have a spell of turning out locos with numbers under the cab windows, but with 4 double arrow symbols behind the cab doors, and I remember seeing a couple of class 20s and at least one cl 114 dmu with the BR symbols backwards.